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TAN and TBN Explanation #5379784 03/18/20 06:38 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SpectroScientific

Background
TOTAL ACID NUMBER
A high concentration of acidic compounds in a lubricant can lead to corrosion
of machine parts and clogged oil filters due to the formation of varnish and
sludge. When a lubricant breaks down, acidic by-products will be formed from
the chemical decomposition of the base stock and additives in the presence of
air and heat. Total Acid Number (TAN) is a measure of acid concentration present
in a lubricant. The acid concentration of a lubricant depends on the presence of
additive package, acidic contamination, and oxidation by-products. Occasionally,
the depletion of an additive package may cause an initial decrease in TAN
of fresh oil. However, the accumulation of oxidation by-products and acidic
contaminants in an oil over time will always lead to an increase in TAN. This test
is most meaningful in industrial machinery applications although sometimes it is
recommended in engine applications along with Total Base Number (TBN).

TOTAL BASE NUMBER
Total Base Number (TBN) is a measure of alkaline concentration present in a
lubricant. Engine oils are formulated with alkaline additives in order to combat
the build-up of acids in a lubricant as it breaks down. The TBN level in a lubricant
is targeted for its application. Gasoline engine oils are typically formulated with
starting TBN around 5-10 mg KOH/g whereas diesel engine oils tend to be higher
(15-30 mg KOH/g) due to the more severe operating conditions. Specialized
applications, such as marine engines, may require >30 mg KOH/g. As the oil
remains in service, this BN additive is depleted. Once the alkaline additives are
depleted beyond a certain limit the lubricant no longer performs its function, and
the engine is at risk of corrosion, sludge, and varnish. At this point it is necessary
to top-off or change the oil...


See TAN and TBN Instrumentation and more info here:

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/857680/WP_MeasuringTANandTBN_in_Oil_final.pdf


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: TAN and TBN Explanation [Re: MolaKule] #5379810 03/18/20 06:57 PM
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BHopkins Offline
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Do you know what method of measuring TAN & TBN that the popular motor oil analysis labs use?

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.


In God we trust. All others bring data.

2013 Subaru Outback 2.5i - M1 HM 0W-20 & NAPA Gold filter
2014 Mercedes E350 M276 - M1 European 0W-40 & Purflux filter
Re: TAN and TBN Explanation [Re: MolaKule] #5379919 03/18/20 09:51 PM
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UG_Passat Offline
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Don't some esters naturally have some higher TAN from the start, which would be misleading in some analysis on VOA's?

I remember Terry Dyson mentioning that on VOA's for Renewable Lube oils.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: TAN and TBN Explanation [Re: UG_Passat] #5380167 03/19/20 08:54 AM
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Brian553 Offline
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Originally Posted by BHopkins
Do you know what method of measuring TAN & TBN that the popular motor oil analysis labs use?

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.


https://www.ccjdigital.com/partner-...ng-tbn-in-modern-heavy-duty-engine-oils/

Labs typically test under ASTM D4739

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Don't some esters naturally have some higher TAN from the start, which would be misleading in some analysis on VOA's?

I remember Terry Dyson mentioning that on VOA's for Renewable Lube oils.


Yes, if present, they will increase your TAN






Re: TAN and TBN Explanation [Re: UG_Passat] #5380451 03/19/20 02:11 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Don't some esters naturally have some higher TAN from the start, which would be misleading in some analysis on VOA's?

I remember Terry Dyson mentioning that on VOA's for Renewable Lube oils.


Brian is correct, but it is not misleading, you have to simply adjust your UOA interpretation to accommodate any potential ester component.

This is why I keep telling people that without a current VOA of the oil you have put into the engine, any subsequent UOA interpretation is pretty much useless.


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: TAN and TBN Explanation [Re: MolaKule] #5380749 03/19/20 08:51 PM
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UG_Passat Offline
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People tend to use Blackstone and they nickel and dime you for TBN and TAN tests.

I've had blackstone question a Renewable Lubes VOA as being a UOA instead, due to the initial TAN of the esters.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: TAN and TBN Explanation [Re: MolaKule] #5381395 03/20/20 04:07 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Amanda from Blackstone states that the TAN testing is based on ASTM D664 and the TBN testing is based on ASTM
D4739.


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
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