Any dark siders here?

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Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by grampi
The discussion of this subject always seems to be heated as both the pro and anti sides are firm believers, but it always begs one question; why not make motorcycle tires out of the same compound that's used to make car tires? The first company that did this would force others to do the same, or go out of business. Unless a super soft compound is needed for performance, deciding whether to buy a tire that lasts 10K miles vs one that lasts 40K miles would be a no brainer...

There some motorcycle tires on the market that have harder rubber in the middle and softer rubber on the sides. Most bikes are using the center section of the tire much more than the sides, so the harder rubber in the middle of the tire gives more wear mileage. I've never tried a tire designed like that, but I can see how it would be beneficial for guy who aren't canyon carvers all day long.

https://motorcycle.michelinman.com/motorbike/tyres/michelin-pilot-road-2

https://www.revzilla.com/multi-compound-motorcycle-tires

The Bridegstone S21 tires I suggested to you years ago, had multiple compounds across the tread. For the rear there was essentially HARD in the middle, MEDIUM as you leaned it over more, and SOFT at the edge of the tread. Bridgestone refers to this as 5LC. For the front it was essentially MEDIUM in the middle, and SOFT out to the edge of the tread. Brdigestone refers to this as 3LC.

Lots of M/C tires with different compounds across the face of the tread.


Yep, Bridgestone is really into tires with multiple rubber compounds. For others interested, link to info on that:

https://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/technology/
 
I'd rather invest in a HF motorcycle tire changer and buy Shinko's. If they can make tires last longer, then they will as the market desires.
Heck, I can get 10k out of a K60 Scout, and if all it costs me is the tire and a little tooling, then that's ok. I can understand the frustration for people that can only commute using their bike.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by grampi
The discussion of this subject always seems to be heated as both the pro and anti sides are firm believers, but it always begs one question; why not make motorcycle tires out of the same compound that's used to make car tires? The first company that did this would force others to do the same, or go out of business. Unless a super soft compound is needed for performance, deciding whether to buy a tire that lasts 10K miles vs one that lasts 40K miles would be a no brainer...


There some motorcycle tires on the market that have harder rubber in the middle and softer rubber on the sides. Most bikes are using the center section of the tire much more than the sides, so the harder rubber in the middle of the tire gives more wear mileage. I've never tried a tire designed like that, but I can see how it would be beneficial for guy who aren't canyon carvers all day long.

https://motorcycle.michelinman.com/motorbike/tyres/michelin-pilot-road-2

https://www.revzilla.com/multi-compound-motorcycle-tires


There are a few thousand Camrys for every Harley on the road.
Guess which application gets the tire development money as well as which gets the economies of scale?
 
I've been riding bikes my whole life and never tried a car tire. If i had a gold wing or fat cruiser i wouldn't have an issue trying one out.

C Mon All you rocket scientists? A bike weighing a fraction of what a car weighs will not quickly destroy a tire designed to much higher stresses. As far as fitment we aren't talking a low profile corvette tire, we're talking a tall profile narrow tire that takes massive sidewall loads as part of its design process that a car can generate. Because a bike leans the sidewalls are never loaded laterally more than a car can generate. So on a bike it is just rolling on shoulder while turning or linear tread stresses as torque is applied heavily ...typically in a straight line.

The Next Time you see a huggy-man car ...you know the little tuner cars with the rear wheels at like 6-10 degrees camber. The tires aren't shredding or exploding ...they just wear on the shoulders more.

I think the real negative argument comes from a subset of nanny obsessed owners manual thumping safeniks that wouldn't ride a tricycle without first donning a styro-lid to safeguard their crystalline grey bits. It is called the darkside by those that imagine themselves more enlightened then the mere mortals surrounding their reply button.
 
What do call the guys who never use the front brake?........because it will launch you over the front wheel!

Skid marks?
 
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Originally Posted by benjy
NOT a smart move!! besides poor handling + braking its NOT legal in many areas + can VOID insurance claims. there are motorcycle tyres offering better mileage while lacking performance but still better than a car tyre!! dont be CHEAP be SAFE!!


Please show me ONE case, one single case, where an insurance claim in the United States has been denied because a motorcycle was darksided. Not rumors, not something from Europe, not something your wife's cousin's hairdresser heard from her neighbor's brother in law, an ACTUAL case.

Originally Posted by Kira
So glad this came up.
Now I know "Darksiders" are a dangerous kind of cheapskate rebel.

Hey, it's good to have something to stand for.


No, that's wrong.

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
The engineers smack their heads in disbelief at the degree of bad handling their customers will put up just to save a few bucks on tire expenses...

[Linked Image]



You have no idea what you are blathering about.
 
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by grampi

MC tire manufacturers could save everyone money if they'd design tires that would last longer...there's no reason they can't...


Manufactures have saved us money... switching from the old bias ply tires to radials did increase mileage and more importantly improved grip...
you're not going to see them improved mileage at the risk of decrease grip just for buyers who open their wallets with a torque wrench...
loosing rear the wheel on your prized bike is not only life threatening but also costly...


Which is why many people darkside. On a large touring bike (Goldwing) ridden 2-up and loaded for travel, a stock tire is a hand grenade with the pin pulled. It is running at or over the maximum rated weight (which is simply not adequate for that very heavy bike), and it gets very little airflow.
 
Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
I've been riding bikes my whole life and never tried a car tire. If i had a gold wing or fat cruiser i wouldn't have an issue trying one out.

C Mon All you rocket scientists? A bike weighing a fraction of what a car weighs will not quickly destroy a tire designed to much higher stresses. As far as fitment we aren't talking a low profile corvette tire, we're talking a tall profile narrow tire that takes massive sidewall loads as part of its design process that a car can generate. Because a bike leans the sidewalls are never loaded laterally more than a car can generate. So on a bike it is just rolling on shoulder while turning or linear tread stresses as torque is applied heavily ...typically in a straight line.

The Next Time you see a huggy-man car ...you know the little tuner cars with the rear wheels at like 6-10 degrees camber. The tires aren't shredding or exploding ...they just wear on the shoulders more.

I think the real negative argument comes from a subset of nanny obsessed owners manual thumping safeniks that wouldn't ride a tricycle without first donning a styro-lid to safeguard their crystalline grey bits. It is called the darkside by those that imagine themselves more enlightened then the mere mortals surrounding their reply button.


From actual darksiders...there is zero sidewall contact. In fact, I have seen more on a car that autocrossed!
 
What size is the tire in the picture? It seems to have some radius across the tread. Would that be due to higher inflation than on a car? Less weight to support? I've never heard of this before, but also sold my last motorcycle 22 years ago.
 
Well ... I run "car" tires on my 2019 Can-Am Spyder. Does that count? OEM sizes are 165/55R15 for the front and 225/55R15 for the rear. The OEM Kenda's are specified as M/C use, yet the wheels are J-bead automotive rims. I'm running Vredestein 165/60R15's up front and a Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring 215/60R15 in the rear. The ride is sooo much smoother with these tires installed, as with the stiffer sidewalls, you can run a bit less air. Spyders don't lean in the traditional M/C sense, so car tires are becoming the norm..
 
I agree with blupupher ...

This topic is worse then motor oil. Although I do not to have a car tire on my bike, in all practicality its up to the rider.
For me personally, on my metrics it was a pain in the butt replacing motorcycle tires between 7 and 8,000 miles but I tolerated it.
My Road King gets 15,000 and that's good enough for me, if I had a car tire on it, it would most likely last way to long and get dry rot.

On the flip side in blupupher case. If he is happy with it, good for him, many are, some aren't. I see nothing wrong with it as far a dangerous and in many cases safer hauling down an interstate in pouring rain maybe.
Car tire isnt made for the lean angle and the "feel" is different but I do not think any less rubber is on the road at any angle more so for a cruiser type bike. Those photos showing small contact area are BS.

AS far as state law and insurance violations that is complete B.S. If anyone checks, all that is required is a DOT tire. Nothing more.
 
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Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
I've been riding bikes my whole life and never tried a car tire. If i had a gold wing or fat cruiser i wouldn't have an issue trying one out.

C Mon All you rocket scientists? A bike weighing a fraction of what a car weighs will not quickly destroy a tire designed to much higher stresses. As far as fitment we aren't talking a low profile corvette tire, we're talking a tall profile narrow tire that takes massive sidewall loads as part of its design process that a car can generate. Because a bike leans the sidewalls are never loaded laterally more than a car can generate. So on a bike it is just rolling on shoulder while turning or linear tread stresses as torque is applied heavily ...typically in a straight line.

The Next Time you see a huggy-man car ...you know the little tuner cars with the rear wheels at like 6-10 degrees camber. The tires aren't shredding or exploding ...they just wear on the shoulders more.

I think the real negative argument comes from a subset of nanny obsessed owners manual thumping safeniks that wouldn't ride a tricycle without first donning a styro-lid to safeguard their crystalline grey bits. It is called the darkside by those that imagine themselves more enlightened then the mere mortals surrounding their reply button.

Hilarious post! Sometimes I'm a manual thumping guy, and other times I find better ways to accomplish things. Engineers aren't always right. That's why I find sites with discussions like this so useful...
 
Originally Posted by blupupher
I do. I like it. I will keep doing it regardless of what those that have not done it say.

[Linked Image]



Originally Posted by benjy
NOT a smart move!! besides poor handling + braking its NOT legal in many areas + can VOID insurance claims. there are motorcycle tyres offering better mileage while lacking performance but still better than a car tyre!! dont be CHEAP be SAFE!!

Handling is different, but not any worse, braking is better, not illegal anywhere in the USA, and will not void an insurance claim any more that modifying any other vehicle.

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Spooning Auto rubber onto your bike is not a tire solution rather its just a rim protector...

[Linked Image]


That is not an accurate representation of a loaded car tire on a motorcycle.

Grampi, the ironic thing about tire compounds is that car tires are softer than bike tires. See this post on a darkside forum

I would never tell anyone to go darkside based on my opinion. Every rider has different needs and expectations, as well as riding conditions and styles. As well as different bikes.
Do some research for yourself. Don't just have a knee jerk reaction to it.
I did my research for my bike and my riding style and my needs, and darkside seems to be what will work for me.
It is not for me on every bike, on my current one it is.
I know some that have done it, and did not like it, so they went back to a bike tire. But I know many more that tried and and won't go back.
Only you can decide if it is the right choice for you.

I am done with this thread though because all the internet know it alls come out with their blah, blah, blah... you're stupid, cheap, don't belong on a bike, don't know what you're talking about, I will sue you if you hit me riding darkside, etc, etc, etc.


Totally illegal in other countries though! If you do that in Germany the bike will be taken to the TÃœV on a flatbed and loose its ABE (roadworthy certificate), you get a hefty fine to go with it. If you get into an accident its all you you the insurance wont pay even if its not your fault, the reason being that the bike should not be on the road anyway.
When I had my big accident the woman who hit me insurance thought they got off the hook, their agent saw I had a tire that was not stock, it was 10mm wider and it was not in my papers.
It was in fact approved by a TÃœV engineer and I had legal papers for the tire upgrade, it just wasn't put in the bikes papers yet, they were back on the hook for the full load.

Anyone reading this should check their local regulations on doing something like this, it could be the most costly tire you ever bought.
 
No, not here. That may be the case in Europe (where you are terrified of actually doing something not approved by your benevolent government overlords), but no, not here.
 
I don't have any problem with regulations against doing things like putting car tires on two wheeled motorcycles, its not about protecting the person who does it its the other people that could be injured by those actions.
It may be OE on side car equipped bikes and trikes, I dont know.
 
Originally Posted by troop
Well ... I run "car" tires on my 2019 Can-Am Spyder. Does that count? .


No. It's a three wheeled trike, it doesn't lean to turn. Same as a sidecar rig which doesn't lean to turn.
 
Every two-wheeled motorcycle I've tried with a car tire mounted, handles worse because of it. If people really want a worse handling bike, go for it.
 
^^ Now that is an educated statement based on armchair experience. ^^

Nothing wrong with it, however it's been showing there are not legal issues or safety issues by those who decide to do this and do it maturely and wisely.
 
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