Toyo Tundra 5.7

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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You two need to prove the increased wear in a 5.7 liter Tundra engine that has ran 0w-20 against one that has ran a thicker oil. Or any other modern engine for that matter. And I'm talking about actual tear downs where main bearings, piston rings, etc. are compared under the same conditions. We can all read comparisons of oil and MOFT and HTHS figures produced from a lab, but does that ACTUALLY show up in less wear on an actual engine used in real world conditions.

Let's see it. I really am curious to see proof. Like I've stated before. If someone can show me tests done like stated above that show higher engine wear because of 0w-20 I will stop running it today.

As in some of your other posts that I've seen, you change the subject and attempt to post a "gotcha' response when it isn't what was being discussed.

Again what I and Bryanccfshr posted is correct. It is indeed MOFT that keeps parts separated and prevents metal-to-metal contact. Higher viscosity oils depend less on additives to keep an adequate MOFT. I suspect you know this already however.
 
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44724168?seq=1

Actual SAE paper


This one will probably keep you busy with data. But establishes wear rates and MOFT has a direct relationship to both RPM and HTHS


https://oil-club.de/index.php?attachment/15338-sae-j300-hths-basis%C3%B6le-pdf/

You will learn that a 0w20 is just fine at 2k rpm or lower.
Now if you must drive at higher rpms..such as high speed driving and or towing (hey this is in our toyota owners manual) a higher HTHS will help with the higher wear rates that higher rpms cause.
 
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Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
What does it matter to you if others prefer to provide better lubrication protection to their Tundras?


That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.



It's quantifiable that the higher viscosity selection will provide more reliable hydrodynamic lubrication. It's physics and it's real.


Hogwash. You can give paper specifics all day long, but actual performance is the true test. Guess what? Toyota Tundras running 0w20 have gone way over 200,000 miles and the engine is just as protected as your "better" lubricant. These are trucks that see higher RPMs and long running trips with heavy loads. Show me proof that a higher viscosity oil would have protected those engines better. You can't.

So, if that is the case, then why not run what Toyota specs? It certainly isn't because you have an oil that can provide "better" lubrication for the engine.
 
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44724168?seq=1

Actual SAE paper


This one will probably keep you busy with data. But establishes wear rates and MOFT has a direct relationship to both RPM and HTHS


https://oil-club.de/index.php?attachment/15338-sae-j300-hths-basis%C3%B6le-pdf/

You will learn that a 0w20 is just fine at 2k rpm or lower.
Now if you must drive at higher rpms..such as high speed driving and or towing (hey this is in our toyota owners manual) a higher HTHS will help with the higher wear rates that higher rpms cause.


Neither was what I asked for and one was from way back in 1998.

As for 0w-20 only being ok for only 2000 rpm's and below, total bull. If that were the case Tundras (along with many other cars and trucks) would be needing bearing replacement under warranty or soon after. You even admit in your signature that your dealer uses 0w-20 in your own car!

Where are all these vehicles that are experiencing higher wear rates that need overhauls sooner than people using 5W-30 or 10W-30?
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Where are all these vehicles that are experiencing higher wear rates that need overhauls sooner than people using 5W-30 or 10W-30?

Conversely how would anyone know? Is an autopsy performed on every failed vehicle? Your point is valid but the reverse is also true. We do not have access to that data either way.

Honda did say that wear would be "acceptable" on the thinner oils, not optimal.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Where are all these vehicles that are experiencing higher wear rates that need overhauls sooner than people using 5W-30 or 10W-30?

Conversely how would anyone know? Is an autopsy performed on every failed vehicle?


Do you really think that with what we have today called the internet that we wouldn't be seeing/hearing about increased wear problems from 0w-20? Across all manufacturers and models? Independent mechanics, dealer mechanics and manufacturers could never keep this information a secret.

Like I stated, there are Tundras (and hundreds of thousands of other vehicles, maybe millions) out there running 0w-20 oil that are lasting 100, 200, 300,000 miles or more. I used to service one (Tundra 5.7) that had just under 300,000 miles in my shop before it was totaled. Only had TGMO Or Mobil 1 0w-20 it's entire life. Didn't use a drop of oil between changes and towed a 6xxx pound trailer everyday. Where is the decreased reliability and durability?
 
Neither you nor I know the actual condition of engines that have completed their useful lives, whether due to an issue with the engine or some other fatal problem. I don't think anyone has that data since scrap yards are not producing that data. I also do not think that Internet reports are valid either, much like "piles" of failed vehicles along the road. Neither one of those statements is valid for this kind of determination.

Frankly I do not believe that an engine, even a Toyota one does not use "a drop" of oil between changes at nearly 300,000 miles. Such a statement makes me question anything else you state in support of your posts.

But that's just my opinion.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Neither you nor I know the actual condition of engines that have completed their useful lives, whether due to an issue with the engine or some other fatal problem. I don't think anyone has that data since scrap yards are not producing that data. I also do not think that Internet reports are valid either, much like "piles" of failed vehicles along the road. Neither one of those statements is valid for this kind of determination.

Frankly I do not believe that an engine, even a Toyota one does not use "a drop" of oil between changes at nearly 300,000 miles. Such a statement makes me question anything else you state in support of your posts.

But that's just my opinion.


I'm sorry. Let me amend my statement. The engine never used any discernible amount of oil and never required any make up oil between oil changes according to its measuring device: AKA, dipstick. Happy now?

Again, where is the proof that actual engines suffer increased wear from using 0w-20 motor oil as compared to others?....
 
You seem to trust engineers. These spec graphs and sheets and data illustrated were made from data collected during tear downs of equipment in controlled conditions. What controlled conditions can you demonstrate? Dismissing the data I provided is not supportive of your own position,. Correlation to anecdotal testimony is useless.
.
Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
What does it matter to you if others prefer to provide better lubrication protection to their Tundras?


That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.



It's quantifiable that the higher viscosity selection will provide more reliable hydrodynamic lubrication. It's physics and it's real.


Hogwash. You can give paper specifics all day long, but actual performance is the true test. Guess what? Toyota Tundras running 0w20 have gone way over 200,000 miles and the engine is just as protected as your "better" lubricant. These are trucks that see higher RPMs and long running trips with heavy loads. Show me proof that a higher viscosity oil would have protected those engines better. You can't.

So, if that is the case, then why not run what Toyota specs? It certainly isn't because you have an oil that can provide "better" lubrication for the engine.
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I'm sorry. Let me amend my statement. The engine never used any discernible amount of oil and never required any make up oil between oil changes according to its measuring device: AKA, dipstick. Happy now?

Again, where is the proof that actual engines suffer increased wear from using 0w-20 motor oil as compared to others?....

I kind of thought that wasn't true. Am I happy? No, but I think it is relevant to other statements you've made or may make.

Like I said the proof is in the same place as the proof for your claims, but is someone checking?
 
"Neither was what I asked for and one was from way back in 1998. "

I am curious what has changed in the physical,world that would not make a study in 1998 relevant. Did we discover some new physics exceptions such as wear rates increase with lower viscosity, except in Tundras and vehicles that state them in the owners manuals? Tell me where is this?
 
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Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
"Neither was what I asked for and one was from way back in 1998. "

I a, curious what has changed in the physical,world that would not make a study in 1998 relevant. I suppose we should throw out Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, or perhaps it's time to stop believing in gravity, it is such an aged study and things have advanced.go ahead and fly


Engine oils and their additives change all the time. Throwing out the theory of relativity is a straw man argument.

Why do you allow your dealer to use 0w-20 in your own car? I'm curious.

Keep going back and editing your post to remove your point about Einstein, Bryan! Lol
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I'm sorry. Let me amend my statement. The engine never used any discernible amount of oil and never required any make up oil between oil changes according to its measuring device: AKA, dipstick. Happy now?

Again, where is the proof that actual engines suffer increased wear from using 0w-20 motor oil as compared to others?....

I kind of thought that wasn't true. Am I happy? No...


Be real. You act as if I was lying to you. Anyone in the real world will tell you that if an engine doesn't need any make up oil added between 7k mile oil changes they consider that as not using any oil. Any of us that actually do work on vehicles, that is. No movement on the dipstick is a good reason to not add oil.
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Be real. You act as if I was lying to you. Anyone in the real world will tell you that if an engine doesn't need any make up oil added between 7k mile oil changes they consider that as not using any oil. Any of us that actually do work on vehicles, that is. No movement on the dipstick is a good reason to not add oil.

I thought that was clear from my first post, PowerSurge. As someone who operates several vehicles all nearing or exceeding 300,000 miles (and I do all the work on them myself) I most certainly do not believe what you posted, nor do I believe your correction. But that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I used to service one (Tundra 5.7) that had just under 300,000 miles in my shop before it was totaled. Only had TGMO Or Mobil 1 0w-20 it's entire life. Didn't use a drop of oil between changes and towed a 6xxx pound trailer everyday.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Be real. You act as if I was lying to you. Anyone in the real world will tell you that if an engine doesn't need any make up oil added between 7k mile oil changes they consider that as not using any oil. Any of us that actually do work on vehicles, that is. No movement on the dipstick is a good reason to not add oil.

I thought that was clear from my first post, PowerSurge. As someone who operates several vehicles all nearing or exceeding 300,000 miles (and I do all the work on them myself) I most certainly do not believe what you posted, nor do I believe your correction. But that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I used to service one (Tundra 5.7) that had just under 300,000 miles in my shop before it was totaled. Only had TGMO Or Mobil 1 0w-20 it's entire life. Didn't use a drop of oil between changes and towed a 6xxx pound trailer everyday.



With your attitude, I honestly could not care less what you believe. Have a nice night!
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
With your attitude, I honestly could not care less what you believe. Have a nice night!

No problem.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by Cujet
[sarc] From what I understand, that engine will survive to 400,000 miles without any oil or coolant at all, in fact, some say it will even run without any spark plugs! They are in fact, that good! [sarc]

Of course, it's a very well built engine and will give you great service with any reasonable maintenance interval. With that in mind, why not use M1, as it's available everywhere, for a reasonable price, and will completely prevent any risk of piston ring sticking that can happen with extended drain intervals on conventional oils.



Piston ring sticking is pretty common on a Toyota using inferior oil.

Without opening-up a can of worms and citing inferior oils by name or grade, which are your three favorite non-inferiors?


my three favorite oils are, M1 5w-30 esp , SHU c2/c3 0w-30 and Castrol edge 0w-30 c3. Using right now M1 5w-30 ESP and i like it better than the older version.
 
Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
hmm, why not 5w-30 or 0w-40?


Because it calls for 0w20...


just like every Toyota, but runs better on higher viscosity


No, it doesn't. What proof do you have of this? What does "it runs better" mean? LOL.


Zero piston slap noise. less blowby, less oil via pcv valve. Less to zero "tick tick" noise when driven hard. Better oil pressure when hot. i can go on. Hybrid starting kocking noise went away on my ct200h when i did use m1 0w-40. And you are not forced to use a 0w-20 in a Toyota in my country even within warranty period. And Toyota owner manual says to use higher viscosity if you drive hard or do much highway drives.

The part when i said it runs better i cant explain it on English so... you have to figure it out.
 
You can use 5/20 or add a quart or two of 5/30. You will get some oil consumption with thinner oils.
 
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