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Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: Tundra73] #5378537 03/17/20 10:54 AM
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What does it matter to you if others prefer to provide better lubrication protection to their Tundras?
No one is forcing you to go outside your comfort zone.

Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Dude
But you can sense if it's the truth, by reading what thousands of other Toyota owners have to say on the matter.


I am a member of three Toyota Tundra forums. Sure, there are few who espouse similar nonsense as you, but the majority on those forums run the Toyota spec'd oil weight as they should because they believe in rational, scientific decisions, not feelings.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

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Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: Bryanccfshr] #5378544 03/17/20 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
What does it matter to you if others prefer to provide better lubrication protection to their Tundras?


That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.


2019 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7 FFV V8 4x4 | Amsoil SS 0w-20 | Toyota OEM Oil Filter | 10,000 OCI
2017 Hyundai IONIQ | Amsoil SS 0w20 | Hyundai OEM Oil Filter | 10,000 OCI
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: Tundra73] #5378550 03/17/20 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tundra73
That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.

Because it would have a higher HTHS. If there is one motor oil performance value that you could pull out as a singular indicator of "protection" that would be it.

In regards to protection MOFT is still king.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: Tundra73] #5378555 03/17/20 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
What does it matter to you if others prefer to provide better lubrication protection to their Tundras?


That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.



It’s quantifiable that the higher viscosity selection will provide more reliable hydrodynamic lubrication. It’s physics and it’s real.

Last edited by Bryanccfshr; 03/17/20 11:18 AM.

2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: kschachn] #5378600 03/17/20 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Tundra73
That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.

Because it would have a higher HTHS. If there is one motor oil performance value that you could pull out as a singular indicator of "protection" that would be it.

In regards to protection MOFT is still king.


One of the million mile Tundras used 0w-20 oil. There are many, many Tundras running around with way over 100,000 and 200,000 miles that have only used 0w-20 oil.

The same usual suspects always posts in these threads. 10 years from now you two will be posting that instead of 0w-8 or 0w-16 oil everyone should be running 0w-20 because of MOFT and HTHS.

Read and UNDERSTAND ALL of the first post in this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../moft-hthsv-vii-and-wear-its-complicated


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: s2krunner] #5378626 03/17/20 12:33 PM
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Since your truck isn’t flex fuel (5,000 mile OCI for normal use, 2,500 for severe) you have more relaxed oil change requirements.

Further, you’re covering 7,500 miles every three months, so you’re not short tripping this, it’s getting lots of long runs.

You’re already changing it at 3/4 of the recommended mileage and well short of the recommended time.

You’re already being conservative.

The owner’s manual on my 2016 says 0W20 required, and while 5w20 can be used, it must be changed back. Then it says, for severe use, like towing, 5W30 may be used.

So, truthfully, any 0W20, 5W20 or 5W30 sounds good. I would stick with a synthetic, 0w20 is fine, since that’s what you prefer. Toyota’s own is fine.

I’ve been running mine on 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, which I got really cheap. UOAs on that are good, and that would be fine, too.

I just don’t think this engine is picky, or has unusual requirements. That leaves a lot of good choices for you. Don’t worry too much.

Last edited by Astro14; 03/17/20 12:35 PM.

32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: PowerSurge] #5378637 03/17/20 12:50 PM
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N/A


2019 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7 FFV V8 4x4 | Amsoil SS 0w-20 | Toyota OEM Oil Filter | 10,000 OCI
2017 Hyundai IONIQ | Amsoil SS 0w20 | Hyundai OEM Oil Filter | 10,000 OCI
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: PowerSurge] #5378638 03/17/20 12:50 PM
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You do realize this was a meme bee posting and not a peer reviewed paper? You do also realize that thatmposters stance has changed somewhat since that was originally posted? He has a good theory about base oil viscosity but again, it is purely mathematical and lacks actual testing to prove the hypothesis at hand.
The best standard we have is HTHS viscosity. Relying on DR Haas type of posts. While intriguing, is not science.

Tell us why to “you” think HTHS “ is an unreliable measure. Of film strength and thickness?



Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Tundra73
That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.

Because it would have a higher HTHS. If there is one motor oil performance value that you could pull out as a singular indicator of "protection" that would be it.

In regards to protection MOFT is still king.


One of the million mile Tundras used 0w-20 oil. There are many, many Tundras running around with way over 100,000 and 200,000 miles that have only used 0w-20 oil.

The same usual suspects always posts in these threads. 10 years from now you two will be posting that instead of 0w-8 or 0w-16 oil everyone should be running 0w-20 because of MOFT and HTHS.

Read and UNDERSTAND ALL of the first post in this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../moft-hthsv-vii-and-wear-its-complicated


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: PowerSurge] #5378641 03/17/20 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
One of the million mile Tundras used 0w-20 oil. There are many, many Tundras running around with way over 100,000 and 200,000 miles that have only used 0w-20 oil.

The same usual suspects always posts in these threads. 10 years from now you two will be posting that instead of 0w-8 or 0w-16 oil everyone should be running 0w-20 because of MOFT and HTHS.

Read and UNDERSTAND ALL of the first post in this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../moft-hthsv-vii-and-wear-its-complicated

This is indicative of most of your posts. Why it has anything to do with the "same usual suspects" posting I have no clue, the same thing could be said for what PowerSurge usually posts.

Why isn't it about technical accuracy? A higher grade of oil will have a higher MOFT and this is king when it comes to "protection". Please explain how that statement is incorrect.

Please also respond to what Bryanccfshr posts in this thread, I'm not the only one here.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
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1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: s2krunner] #5378672 03/17/20 01:27 PM
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You two need to prove the increased wear in a 5.7 liter Tundra engine that has ran 0w-20 against one that has ran a thicker oil. Or any other modern engine for that matter. And I’m talking about actual tear downs where main bearings, piston rings, etc. are compared under the same conditions. We can all read comparisons of oil and MOFT and HTHS figures produced from a lab, but does that ACTUALLY show up in less wear on an actual engine used in real world conditions?

Let’s see it. I really am curious to see proof. Like I’ve stated before. If someone can show me tests done like stated above that show higher engine wear because of 0w-20 I will stop running it today.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: PowerSurge] #5378678 03/17/20 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You two need to prove the increased wear in a 5.7 liter Tundra engine that has ran 0w-20 against one that has ran a thicker oil. Or any other modern engine for that matter. And I’m talking about actual tear downs where main bearings, piston rings, etc. are compared under the same conditions. We can all read comparisons of oil and MOFT and HTHS figures produced from a lab, but does that ACTUALLY show up in less wear on an actual engine used in real world conditions.

Let’s see it. I really am curious to see proof. Like I’ve stated before. If someone can show me tests done like stated above that show higher engine wear because of 0w-20 I will stop running it today.

As in some of your other posts that I've seen, you change the subject and attempt to post a "gotcha' response when it isn't what was being discussed.

Again what I and Bryanccfshr posted is correct. It is indeed MOFT that keeps parts separated and prevents metal-to-metal contact. Higher viscosity oils depend less on additives to keep an adequate MOFT. I suspect you know this already however.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: s2krunner] #5378709 03/17/20 02:15 PM
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https://www.jstor.org/stable/44724168?seq=1

Actual SAE paper


This one will probably keep you busy with data. But establishes wear rates and MOFT has a direct relationship to both RPM and HTHS


https://oil-club.de/index.php?attachment/15338-sae-j300-hths-basis%C3%B6le-pdf/

You will learn that a 0w20 is just fine at 2k rpm or lower.
Now if you must drive at higher rpms..such as high speed driving and or towing (hey this is in our toyota owners manual) a higher HTHS will help with the higher wear rates that higher rpms cause.

Last edited by Bryanccfshr; 03/17/20 02:23 PM.

2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: Bryanccfshr] #5378734 03/17/20 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by Tundra73
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
What does it matter to you if others prefer to provide better lubrication protection to their Tundras?


That is my point. How do you know it is better protection? You don't.



It’s quantifiable that the higher viscosity selection will provide more reliable hydrodynamic lubrication. It’s physics and it’s real.


Hogwash. You can give paper specifics all day long, but actual performance is the true test. Guess what? Toyota Tundras running 0w20 have gone way over 200,000 miles and the engine is just as protected as your "better" lubricant. These are trucks that see higher RPMs and long running trips with heavy loads. Show me proof that a higher viscosity oil would have protected those engines better. You can't.

So, if that is the case, then why not run what Toyota specs? It certainly isn't because you have an oil that can provide "better" lubrication for the engine.


2019 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7 FFV V8 4x4 | Amsoil SS 0w-20 | Toyota OEM Oil Filter | 10,000 OCI
2017 Hyundai IONIQ | Amsoil SS 0w20 | Hyundai OEM Oil Filter | 10,000 OCI
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: Bryanccfshr] #5378743 03/17/20 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44724168?seq=1

Actual SAE paper


This one will probably keep you busy with data. But establishes wear rates and MOFT has a direct relationship to both RPM and HTHS


https://oil-club.de/index.php?attachment/15338-sae-j300-hths-basis%C3%B6le-pdf/

You will learn that a 0w20 is just fine at 2k rpm or lower.
Now if you must drive at higher rpms..such as high speed driving and or towing (hey this is in our toyota owners manual) a higher HTHS will help with the higher wear rates that higher rpms cause.


Neither was what I asked for and one was from way back in 1998.

As for 0w-20 only being ok for only 2000 rpm’s and below, total bull. If that were the case Tundras (along with many other cars and trucks) would be needing bearing replacement under warranty or soon after. You even admit in your signature that your dealer uses 0w-20 in your own car!

Where are all these vehicles that are experiencing higher wear rates that need overhauls sooner than people using 5W-30 or 10W-30?


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: Toyo Tundra 5.7 [Re: PowerSurge] #5378755 03/17/20 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Where are all these vehicles that are experiencing higher wear rates that need overhauls sooner than people using 5W-30 or 10W-30?

Conversely how would anyone know? Is an autopsy performed on every failed vehicle? Your point is valid but the reverse is also true. We do not have access to that data either way.

Honda did say that wear would be "acceptable" on the thinner oils, not optimal.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
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