Thin 0w20?

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by NH73
Any where else, I often read that high VI's and VII's was always a bad thing. Now all of a sudden, it is good for TGMO. Which one is it?

High VII content promotes more turbocharger and engine deposits and sludge because VII is plastic and possibly increases the wear because the oil runs thinner. However, it raises the fuel economy. Therefore, like anything else it's a compromise. Japanese OEMs favored ultra-high-VI oils because of their fuel economy. Now, with the TGI, GDI, and TGDI engines becoming more popular, ultra-high-VI oils are becoming less desirable.

All this said I never had a bad UOA with TGMO in my Corolla, and I haven't seen anyone who had a bad UOA with TGMO. Is it the best oil for wear protection and engine cleaning? No. However, it still works, like any oil.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Somebody here at BITOG (maybe Gokhan) showed a chart a week ago that broke-down all kinds of measurement numbers in different viscosities - with different oils. I thought I saved the link, but can't seem to find it. That chart showed the viscosity numbers for numerous oils in different weights.

Hopefully whoever provided that chart will read this thread.

The latest, updated spreadsheet:

Estimated base-oil viscosity (BO DV150) and VII content of selected oils

If you want a thick oil, you want both a high HTHS and a high BO DV150, as the lower end of the engine experiences the HTHS and the upper end (valvetrain and upper rings) experiences BO DV150.

For most considerations you can virtually ignore KV100, but it comes into play with engine leaks and valve-stem oil seals. Also, high VI of the finished oil helps with fuel economy but may increase wear. As I said earlier, if you want a thick oil -- as in a high dynamic viscosity in all shear rates -- you want the lowest KV100 for a given HTHS.

The theory behind the calculations:

High-shear and full-shear viscosities

 

[Triple_Se7en]

It's not inside those 2 links you provided. Neither link has csts for all the brands and all the viscosities. The OP wants to find out who makes the thinnest 0w20 oils.

Maybe it was a pdf and not an actual link. Oh well, no biggie. Don't waste more time on it. Thanks for your help.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Neither link has csts for all the brands and all the viscosities.

cSt values (KV40 and KV100) are in the spreadsheet (first link).

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Got it........ thanks for providing them for the OP.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by NH73
Any where else, I often read that high VI's and VII's was always a bad thing. Now all of a sudden, it is good for TGMO. Which one is it?

High VII content promotes more turbocharger and engine deposits and sludge because VII is plastic and possibly increases the wear because the oil runs thinner. However, it raises the fuel economy. Therefore, like anything else it's a compromise. Japanese OEMs favored ultra-high-VI oils because of their fuel economy. Now, with the TGI, GDI, and TGDI engines becoming more popular, ultra-high-VI oils are becoming less desirable.

All this said I never had a bad UOA with TGMO in my Corolla, and I haven't seen anyone who had a bad UOA with TGMO. Is it the best oil for wear protection and engine cleaning? No. However, it still works, like any oil.
So how much more fuel economy does it make that is better than other 0w20? Do you run the Toyota's OEM recommendation of 10,000 miles?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by NH73
So how much more fuel economy does it make that is better than other 0w20? Do you run the Toyota's OEM recommendation of 10,000 miles?

You insist on saying things I didn't say as if I said them. I didn't say TGMO is better than other 0W-20 oils. I said higher VI results in better fuel economy for a given HTHS value -- end of story. It's probably around a 0.5% gain, and it's up to you choose this oil or not. My last 0W-20 run was M1 EP 0W-20, not the TGMO.

I don't run 0W-20 anymore. I run 0W-16. I follow whatever the OCI Toyota recommends and put in whatever they put at the factory and the dealer, as I have a free two-year maintenance on my new car. I need to have a power line installed in my garage so that the most driving becomes EV and I don't have to worry about the internal-combustion engine and the oil.

 

[BucDan]

0W-8 wow. That's like water. Now, I wouldn't be shocked if 0W-4 will release down the road. For some reason, that seems crazy to me.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by BucDan
0W-8 wow. That's like water. Now, I wouldn't be shocked if 0W-4 will release down the road. For some reason, that seems crazy to me.

It will likely end with 0w08. There won't be any gasoline engines coming out of factories in 10-12 years. The big push is on to halt the warming climate. Everyone is into solar / electric productions this year.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

It will likely end with 0w08. There won't be any gasoline in 10-12 years.
Everyone is into solar this year.


Doubtful, the average car is 20 years old and getting older every day
many applications simply don't make sense for EV.

In my state there are under 3000 EVs registered in total out of 6 million and that number isn't going up due to $665 title+registration fines.

Rate of adoption outside 3 states is actually going in reverse.

I would estimate you will see laggards with gas engines still in 50 years unless some dramatic change occurs

 

[Aichiguy]

Average age of cars in US is 11.8 years