CAT 3116 oil usage

[Craig]

I own a Mainship Trawler (boat) that is powered by a CAT
3116 TA 300hp engine. CAT insists that the engine oil
MUST be a straight wt 30 or 40wt. Seems polymers have
a tendency to clog up the turbo and aftercooler in these
engines leading to engine problems. So I use Amsoil
30 wt heavy duty synthetic diesel engine oil with a Amsoil
remote oil filtration unit. Oil capacity is almost 30 qts.

Engine runs like a watch with no problems in 675 hours of
operation. The issue is that I burn/lose about a quart of oil
every 15-20 hours of engine time. I don't think this is normal.
The engine does not smoke or leave any residue of any kind
on the transom. I do run for extended periods like 8-12 hours
but do not exceed 2300rpm which is conservative operation.

I was/am considering either going to a straight 40 wt or adding some kind of additive to the oil. I am somwhat reluctant to add anything to the oil but I am not aware of any straight 40wt diesel
engine oils, preferably synthetic that are out there.

Please advise.

Craig

 

[Hammer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Craig:
I own a Mainship Trawler (boat) that is powered by a CAT
3116 TA 300hp engine. CAT insists that the engine oil
MUST be a straight wt 30 or 40wt. Seems polymers have
a tendency to clog up the turbo and aftercooler in these
engines leading to engine problems. So I use Amsoil
30 wt heavy duty synthetic diesel engine oil with a Amsoil
remote oil filtration unit. Oil capacity is almost 30 qts.

Engine runs like a watch with no problems in 675 hours of
operation. The issue is that I burn/lose about a quart of oil
every 15-20 hours of engine time. I don't think this is normal.
The engine does not smoke or leave any residue of any kind
on the transom. I do run for extended periods like 8-12 hours
but do not exceed 2300rpm which is conservative operation.

I was/am considering either going to a straight 40 wt or adding some kind of additive to the oil. I am somwhat reluctant to add anything to the oil but I am not aware of any straight 40wt diesel
engine oils, preferably synthetic that are out there.

Please advise.

Craig

---

Your oil use does not sound excessive to me. I think your engine is fine.

Hammer

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Craig - the oil consumption you state is not really excessive but at those hours should probably be lower

I find it odd that Caterpillar insist on the oil viscosities you mention

And their reason as you state;

"Seems polymers have a tendency to clog up the turbo and aftercooler in these engines leading to engine problems."

seems to be an very odd one! How could it clog up an aftercooler? - we are always learning!

CAT sell their own range of 15w-40 oils and a 5w-40 synthetic. If rhe motor was mine I would check out the correct specs again and either aim for their own synthetic or look for suitable alternatives

According to my data all of the major Oil Companies here recommend a CAT conforming (1K,1N) 15w-40 viscosity in that application

I hope that the Amsoil product you are using is not one designed for DD 2 cycle engines!

Doug

 

[terminaldegree]

1 qt in a diesel boat engine every 20 hours doesn't sound like a problem to me at all. If that's the biggest issue you are facing with your Cat 3116, then consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

Most of the marinized gas engine suppliers won't do warranty work regarding oil consumption until you are consuming > a qt. per 20 hours--- and that's with 5-7 quart sumps...

 

[nascarnation]

We run a bunch of 3116s, 3126s, and C7s using Mobil Delvac 1300 15W40 and they run forever - 10,000 hrs often.
Consumption of 1 qt/ 20 hrs (assuming high load) is not abnormal.

 

[Craig]

The polymer story is straight from CAT. This issue can be made worse evidently when using a Walker Air Sep which recycles
crankcase fumes to the air intake. I do have a Walker on this engine. I am pretty sure this issue occured when the engines
were first introduced and less shear stable oils were available
causing this problem.

Amsoil ACD heavy duty diesel engine oil is rated for all diesels
and has the highest/latest specs. Amsoil recommends the HDD 5W-30 for my application which is very shear stable and a great oil.
Cat however still insists on the straight wt and sell a 30 and 40 wt Cat labled dino oil for this engine. Even though my engine was quite late in the production run of this engine and I'm assuming most if not all issues were addressed, I am still not
taking any chances with Cat denying me a repair because I used the wrong wt oil. Particularly with the history of this engine
in the earlier years of production. Cat does take care of their
customers if they follow OEM quidelines.

This engine has operated flawlessly, I don't overprop it or run at
max cruising rpm (2400). I baby this thing and usually run about 2200-2300rpm. Max rpm is 2850.
I am actually using a little more than a quart every 15 hours.
Craig

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I suspected that it may be Amsoil's ACD that you are using

I do not intend to "knock" this product as I have no experience with it
What is of interest to me is the ACD's specification and certain aspects that would preclude me from using it if I was operating your engine

1 - The viscosity is too light for me with only 10.9cSt at 100C. I would want a minimum of 13.5>cSt
2 - The HTHS viscosity needs to be above 3.8cSt and around 4cSt IMHO - I do not know what the ACD's HTHS vis.is
3 - The sulphated ash level is not stated

There may be more issues too but I will leave the "flames" to come from the Amsoil sellers!

They may suggest another Amsoil product!

I suspect however that a modern mineral oil HDEO 15w-40 like "nascarnation" uses (there is a wide choice) may be better in your application.
Many modern mineral oils (Shell, Delo, Castrol RX Super and etc) perform extremely well in CAT engines. I suspect that any of these may reduce your oil consumption too

According to Amsoil's marketing it is NOT a "straight" SAE30 oil as CAT recommends - it is 10w-30/SAE30!

Doug

[ August 22, 2005, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[bruce381]

Doug Do you have any coment on this?

years ago when the GPII came out 70-80'S ? Chevron had solubility problems with the GPII and in diesels I remember that GPII was to "DRY" and was not rcomended at that time for 15/40 oils basicly the add packages had not compensated for the higher aniline point GPII oils.
Bruce

 

[Craig]

I have been using the older formulation ACD. Straight 30wt.
The new ACD is now called 10W-30/SAE 30.
Craig

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi Bruce,
sorry I have no specific info on this but I suspect it was so

By the late 70s and well into the 90s the changing heavy diesel engine technoligies caused enormous problems for many Oil Companies. But you will already be aware of this as emission controls and variable fuel quality around the world cost many people a lot of money
Some Oil Companies managed to kept in front of the play and Castrol, Shell and Mobil seemed to do it best although Caltex-Chevron maintained a loyal customer base here in OZ

Many engine families from Japanese and some Euro manufacturers called for straight SAE30 and SAE40 oils over the last several decades (possibly as a result of the issue you mentioned)

A quick analysis of Castrol's recommendations now show that only the DD 2 cycle engines are left in the SAE30/40/50 straight viscosity range - and these are critically engine specific lubricants
All of the others (mineral and semi-synthetic) are either 10w-40, 15w-40 or 20w-40

IMHO the performance of correctly specified (and Officially & Manufacturer Approved) GP111 HDEOs is really something and I suspect that they are now as good (whole of life cost effectivness) as the synthetic HDEOs

Doug

 

[bruce381]

"IMHO the performance of correctly specified (and Officially & Manufacturer Approved) GP111 HDEOs is really something and I suspect that they are now as good (whole of life cost effectivness) as the synthetic HDEOs"

Agree 100%
bruce

 

[Craig]

FYI, I sent Amsoil a tech question about this and they have
responded by sending me (not received yet) a booklet on 18 reasons engines can use/lose oil.

They are also sending me a FREE oil sampling kit for analysis
of my oil. They have special ID'd the sample bottle for individual
attention to see if I have engine issues that I should be aware of.

That's pretty darn good service!!

I will keep everyone informed.
Thanks for your help guys.
Craig
Athena
'00 Mainship 390 trawer

 

[TooSlick]

Craig,

The Amsoil 10w-30/ACD (VI of 141) is formulated without an polymeric thickeners. The stuff has been on the market since 1973 - the first synthetic diesel oil commonly available in the US - and is pretty bulletproof. I ran it in some Mercedes cabover trucks about 25 years back and it did really well.

I'm fairly certain you could also run the 15w-40/AME synthetic in this application without any issues. However, I wouldn't expect a dramatic decrease in oil consumption. It might decrease to a quart every 25-30 hours, for example. However, fuel efficiency is going to be better with the 30wt, than with a 40wt. So I think it's more cost effective to stick with ACD in this case.

My other suggestion is to run the Amsoil HD, diesel fuel additive concentrate @ 1 pt/100 gallons of fuel. That should help promote a better ring seal and may reduce this consumption somewhat. If you're using high sulphur (> 500 ppm) fuel, the fuel treat should really help....

Tooslick

 

[TooSlick]

I should add that the person to talk to about this is lister, "Ken2", who works as a Marine Engineer with all these types of engines, as well as much larger ones. He'd specifically know if this is typical oil consumption for a marine application of this motor setup.

TS

 

[slc10844]

I certainly don't have the expertise of you all, but I am assuming Craig is keeping the oil level on the full mark by adding a quart when it indicates low on the dipstick. Considerng the crankcase capacity, perhaps operating a quart or so low to see if it has any affect on the consumption rate?

 

[Craig]

TooSlick,
I use Stanadyne and Soltron (for the bugs).
Now that I think of it I left on this summers
cruise forgetting the Stanadyne. Hmmmm,
The engine has been used to Stanadyne regularly
so maybe that's the issue. Thanks.

sic10844,
I check it before starting out every day we run on
a cruise. I don't add until I see more than 3/4" lower
on the stick. I will try your suggestion.
Craig

 

[JR]

slc10844,

I think your suggestion is a good one. I had a dodge 318 that if you kept the oil at the full mark it would use oil. I was one a fishing trip with that truck and before we started back home I checked the oil and as normal I had to add a quart. I didn't have any oil so I decided to just go a quart low. Got home I checked it and it was at the same spot on the stick. I fill it to that spot about a quarter of an inch below add and have never had an oil comsumpsion problem since then. So I can relate from exprience that it could be possible that the dip stick is reading wrong, in my case it was to short and would cause me to over fill the crankcase and thus it would use the extra oil.

 

[slc10844]

I was thinking dipstick, dipstick location and engine angle. I'm don't know what other applications the CAT 3116 is used in, but in a marine applications most engines are mounted nose up to accommodate the prop shaft angle. If the tube location is near the front of the engine, it may be giving a false indication the level is low when in reality it is full. When underway the bow is usually up, which also increases the engine angle. I don't know if the running angle is a consideration on the engine installation and what effect, if any, it has on the oil in relation to the crankshaft.

 

[Craig]

Hmm, I had a Cat mechanic install a Y dipstick tube. One leg of the Y is for the dipstick and the other
is where I return the oil from the remote ( dualBE-110's)
Amsoil bypass oil filter. The mechanic checked the level before and after installation and crosshatched the new dipstick.
So I feel it's pretty acurate.

Another reason is I drain all the oil out thru a hose from the bottom of the sump so I'm pretty darn sure it almost empty. I then add exactly the amount it's supposed to have and it comes to the top of the hatching on the stick.

I will search the bildge and make double sure I just don't have a leak. Bildge water seems clean without any rainbows etc.
Thanks,
Craig

 

[kenneth neeley]

3100 Cat Marine engines are rec. to run a specfic 30W Cat oil the oil is a marine specific CF-4 rating......I have worked on some of these engines. I dont know what differences the add pack or base stock is.
Alot of aftercooler cores had been plugged off from oil vapor residue.