Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues

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Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
Why on Earth would someone get a 5-7 year old Chevy Equinox or similar, when there are Japanese? There is no logical reason why there are so many not particularly bright Americans that still give them business, especially in a used market!!!
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ummmmm....... current price of the foreign model comprises the #1 reason why someone that lives month-to-month chooses the much cheaper used Chevy.
 
Especially if you're poor you can't afford a car from a brand that has a 50 year old reputation for a poor craftsmanship, no?
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I think American mentality of getting quantity over quality is equivalent, in many cases, of shooting one's self into a foot over longer term
 
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I receive that magazine each month.
Babcox publishes several specialty technical periodicals...they're yours gratis just for the asking.

Quote
"We put the oil in the vehicle that the manufacturer requires, not the oil that you want," Dickmeyer says.

Good on Mr. Dickmeyer.

Quote
"You're not seeing this carbon buildup on race engines as much because they're essentially wide open all the time," Dickmeyer says.

smile.gif
 
One can look at this another way. The higher depreciation of North American cars helps offset the higher maintenance and repair costs.

I'd buy your argument with respect to new cars. One is going to take a bath when it comes to the value lost on a new North American built car. (As you mentioned, not so much on trucks.)

As used cars, they are often a pretty good value. The problems are often sorted out by the time they hit the used market. Parts are often less costly, so one can get into one in the used market and keep it going for less than a used Japanese car that has a higher purchase price due to lower depreciation.

I paid $2k for our 1999 Grand Marquis a little over 5 years ago and have put about 40k miles on it. A new A/C compressor, new ball joints and tie rod ends, some new tires, belts, hoses and tune up parts has been it.

We have our Toyota and Mazda as well. But I don't worry about any of them leaving me on the side of the road.

But I doubt I could have purchased a 15 year old Toyota with 62k miles on it for that kind of money...

Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
It's been what, like 50 years since American car companies been making poor cars and trucks. It amazes me how many "car guys" on BITOG buy used Chevys and Fords in 2020. Even in a very distant Ukraine, the glory of unreliability and poor craftsmanship of American cars was known, despite barely any American cars there. It's that famous. Why on Earth would someone get a 5-7 year old Chevy Equinox or similar, when there are Japanese? There is a perfect logical reason for domestic trio losing so much market share over the last 50 years. Yet there is no logical reason why there are so many not particularly bright Americans that still give them business, especially in a used market!!!
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Pick up trucks are the exception, but only because there are barely any substitutes from foreign brands.
 
I'm all for $2k Grand Marquis etc. It's these are the type of cases I was referring to, which is not your case.

Originally Posted by JustN89
My sister-in-law just bought a 2012/2013 Equinox with the 2.4L. I hope that car will be reliable for them as I know they're not in a position to spend a bunch of money replacing it, but it has me concerned. I wish she had asked for a 2nd opinion before buying it...


Originally Posted by Dave Sherman
Originally Posted by JustN89
My sister-in-law just bought a 2012/2013 Equinox with the 2.4L. I hope that car will be reliable for them as I know they're not in a position to spend a bunch of money replacing it, but it has me concerned. I wish she had asked for a 2nd opinion before buying it...


I'm in that boat. Wish I had read more about them before I helped my wife pick out a 2013 Equinox. It's been disappointingly experiencing known problems. Doors started rusting along the bottom at 3 years old, cam phaser solenoids failed, and it burns about a quart of oil every 1500-2000 miles. Even got the letter saying our VIN is covered under the piston ring special service, but the dealer won't budge. She still owes a bit on it, so hoping it holds up until we can get rid of it, preferably before it starts throwing check engine lights for worn out timing chains, another endearing problem to look forward to.
 
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Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
It's been what, like 50 years since American car companies been making poor cars and trucks. It amazes me how many "car guys" on BITOG buy used Chevys and Fords in 2020. Even in a very distant Ukraine, the glory of unreliability and poor craftsmanship of American cars was known, despite barely any American cars there. It's that famous. Why on Earth would someone get a 5-7 year old Chevy Equinox or similar, when there are Japanese? There is a perfect logical reason for domestic trio losing so much market share over the last 50 years. Yet there is no logical reason why there are so many not particularly bright Americans that still give them business, especially in a used market!!!
06.gif


Pick up trucks are the exception, but only because there are barely any substitutes from foreign brands.

no need to say anymore
 
Agenda driven regulations have ruined alot of the automotive industry. History is repeating itself almost like we are going back wards, back to the old model T days. New engines that crap out in 25,000 or less miles, and transmissions that won't make it to
100,000 miles. Crazy stuff.
 
I've been telling people for YEARS that DI is not responsble for these problems - PCV and EGR are repsonsible for these problems.

You don't treat the symptom, you treat the cause....EGR can be switched off using your smartphone and PCV can use a different vacuum source - doing this will eliminate all intake system deposits.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Agree

Anyone who owned and drove in the 1960s and 70s - especially Chrysler vehicles, never wants anything to do with carbs again.
That's like requesting points and distributors come back also........nada..... never again.


"THERMOQUAD!!! The only carburetor that punishes you for going wide open throttle!" - David Freiburger

But I agree 100%. Modern tech has given us fairly reliable vehicles pushing what would have been inconceivable amounts of power and fuel economy in that era.
 
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again
wink.gif



PFI ?
 
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Agenda driven regulations have ruined alot of the automotive industry. History is repeating itself almost like we are going back wards, back to the old model T days. New engines that crap out in 25,000 or less miles, and transmissions that won't make it to
100,000 miles. Crazy stuff.

lol.gif
smirk2.gif
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Agenda driven regulations have ruined alot of the automotive industry. History is repeating itself almost like we are going back wards, back to the old model T days. New engines that crap out in 25,000 or less miles, and transmissions that won't make it to
100,000 miles. Crazy stuff.

lol.gif
smirk2.gif
crackmeup2.gif






Yep. New name, same old troll.
 
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again
wink.gif



How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits? Both my cars are carbureted with high mileage but I've never had the heads off to see the valves. Slight pinging on the 305 in warm weather but the EGR valve isn't functioning anymore, likely the cause. 350 Oldsmobile never pings ever.
 
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits?


Carbs and PFI, MPFI all have fuel going over the intake valves that helps them stay cleaner. GDI has no fuel going across those valves. The only thing going across them is Air and PCV gasses, hence the intake valve build up.

I understand some manufactures are adding a port injector that runs when the engine is cold. That would should help keep them clean. I don't know which engines, i hear the ford ecoboost may get them.
 
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Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
Especially if you're poor you can't afford a car from a brand that has a 50 year old reputation for a poor craftsmanship, no?
confused2.gif


I think American mentality of getting quantity over quality is equivalent, in many cases, of shooting one's self into a foot over longer term


50 year reputation for poor craftsmanship? I disagree. I agree on a late model equinox or similar being a poor choice (price being the main reason people buy them still) but a lot of taxi companies would not agree with your statement. Tons of early to mid 2000s Impala's with 3800s lasted a long time. I worked at a garage that did repairs on them and then also drove taxi part time for them while going back to school.

Lots of full size Caprices did police duty and then taxi duty for years and years. My 83 Caprice is holding up well for 36 years and 240k miles.

When I was a kid we had a 77 Toyota Corolla and an $800 79 Impala wagon that replaced it (got 2 years out of the Corolla before it biodegraded to the point the springs came into the trunk) the Impala lasted 6 years and was still in half decent shape but needed too many repairs to be worth fixing.
 
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again
wink.gif



PFI ?


Port Fuel Injection, the type we used before GDI.
 
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again
wink.gif



How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits? Both my cars are carbureted with high mileage but I've never had the heads off to see the valves. Slight pinging on the 305 in warm weather but the EGR valve isn't functioning anymore, likely the cause. 350 Oldsmobile never pings ever.



Carbs have very clean manifolds and very clean heads/valves. You are delivering a constant stream of fuel across those componnentns, and fuel is a very effective parts cleaner. The only place you see any buildup in a carb engine is the piston crown, same as any other engine. (maintenance still applies, same as any other platform)
 
Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again
wink.gif



How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits? Both my cars are carbureted with high mileage but I've never had the heads off to see the valves. Slight pinging on the 305 in warm weather but the EGR valve isn't functioning anymore, likely the cause. 350 Oldsmobile never pings ever.



Carbs have very clean manifolds and very clean heads/valves. You are delivering a constant stream of fuel across those componnentns, and fuel is a very effective parts cleaner. The only place you see any buildup in a carb engine is the piston crown, same as any other engine. (maintenance still applies, same as any other platform)


The intake manifold and lifter valley looked like brand new on my 1976 350 with high mileage. Wish I could see the pistons and valves.
 
My son has a 2008 Cadillac with a 3.6 GDI engine. Over 205,000 miles with no problems related to the DI. No valve cleaning maintenance whatsoever. Currently own a hyundai with GDI. 90,000 miles without any intake cleaning and it runs fine. I had an ecotec 2.2 [ not GDI ] that had the PCV port down low between the intake ports as mentioned in the article. Car went bye bye due to an accident with 231,000 miles on it. Burned a qt every 4,000 miles. I haven't experienced any problems with GM or GDi designs. Quality of some parts like GM timing chains is another story.
 
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