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2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle #5371590 03/09/20 12:44 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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Those who read my past threads know about my mis-adventures with my cold start rattleing 2018 Lincoln Navigator L. I rented a 2019 Ford Expedition XLT Max and on the vin sticker it says Date: 5/19. Im not sure if thats the actual production date.

According to guidance from Ford:
"SSM 48168 - 2017-2018 F-150, 2018-2019 Expedition/Navigator - 3.5L EcoBoost - Ticking/Tapping Or Rattle Type Noise On Start Up After A Cold Soak
Some 2017-2018 F-150 vehicles built on or before 10-Jul-2018 and 2018-2019 Expedition/Navigator vehicles built on or before 8-Apr-2019 equipped with a 3.5L EcoBoost engine may exhibit a ticking, tapping, or rattle type noise from the top front cover area of the engine that last 2-5 seconds on initial start-up after a cold soak. This may be due to a worn variable cam timing (VCT) unit. A TSB is expected to be published 4th quarter of 2019. In the interim, replace all 4 VCT units and update the powertrain control module (PCM) calibration. Do not replace timing chains, tensioners, guides or other timing related components unless inspection clearly identifies a concern. Refer to the Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-01. Claim the labor required to replace VCTs using published labor operations and PCM programming using M-time. Monitor OASIS for updates."

Thus I suspect this might be a vehicle manufactured after April 8th 2019 and the fixes implemented after that date were not effective. Specifically the revised camphasers.

Here is the vin sticker from the vehicle. The vehicle has about 34000 miles on it.
[Linked Image]

You can look back at my thread history on this issue. Keep in mind Im just reporting the facts as I am experiencing them. I am not here to poo poo Ford products.

Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371603 03/09/20 12:59 PM
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PowerSurge Offline
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05/19 is the month and year of manufacture.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371604 03/09/20 12:59 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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I will post a video and a redacted version of the rental receipt/contract in a day to add additional credibility to this post. Im just trying to document whats going on.

Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371610 03/09/20 01:04 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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Take note. I can provide quite a few possible explanations as to why its rattleing such as maybe they had a lot of leftover engines manufactured before the current fixes and those were used in this batch of production.

The guidance issued may not have been correct. It might have contained misinformation.

This vehicle may not contain the revised camphasers.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371617 03/09/20 01:10 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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Here is the revised camphaser that I refer to for reference. This same camphaser is used in the F150, Navigator and Expedition. It is the CD camphaser.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Navi; 03/09/20 01:11 PM.
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371650 03/09/20 02:20 PM
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They know what engines went into to which vehicles so I’d think they can tell down to the date when the supply of revised engines went into production. The vin date tag shows this vehicle was assembled in May 2019. At least one manufacturer (Hyundai/Kia possibly) used to show the exact date of assembly on the VIN sticker. Does it sound just like the Navigator that had the cam phaser issues?


2019 Ford Raptor
2017 Corvette Grand Sport
2017 Yukon XL Denali
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371662 03/09/20 02:40 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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The camphaser issue has been a wide ranging issue among the entire 2nd gen 3.5 liter Ecoboost community. Well documented on Youtube by fearful owners who believed that Ford wouldnt make good on the warranty or maybe not make good on buying back the truck under lemon laws.

My 2018 Navigator had the issue until recent repairs, my buddys 2019 Navigator has it and this rental Expedition Max has it.

Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371670 03/09/20 02:54 PM
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Oh I’m well aware of it. I’ve got a 2019 Raptor with 9,000 miles on it that is quiet so far. I can’t say the same for the IWE rattle.


2019 Ford Raptor
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2017 Yukon XL Denali
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371686 03/09/20 03:15 PM
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PowerSurge Offline
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The way Ford has been going it will take them until the 3rd generation of those parts to get it right. The current 5.4 3v Ford cam phasers are I believe the third iteration of those parts. And they are finally solid.

The sad truth is a lot of times with the big 3 all you are is a beta tester.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5371715 03/09/20 03:56 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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Just dropped the rental off but it didnt rattle since it wasnt first start of the day. However when the car was dropped off an Enterprise agent started it up and I could hear it briefly. The coolant bottle had yellow coolant in it vs the orange coolant in the 2018 Navigator.

Ive owned a 2016 Suburban and I honestly like this Expedition more. Its still very quick with the lesser Ecoboost engine and in Sport mode you can feel the difference. The 2nd row legroom even with the bench seat is top notch. The ride with the standard shocks in the 2019 Expedition Max is better than a 2016 Suburban LT. You will feel the bumps more than the Navigator but a bit less than Suburban.

However lets just say some mechanical issues to be worked out. I wouldnt buy a used 2019 or 2018. I would wait out 2020 and go for 2021.

The Navigator is currently at the dealership undergoing turbo replacement...wastegate issues.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Navi; 03/09/20 03:57 PM.
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5372018 03/09/20 11:10 PM
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bdcardinal Online Content
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Build date is 28May2019.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5372770 03/10/20 06:02 PM
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would not buy ANY ford at this point


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Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5372847 03/10/20 07:32 PM
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Navi Offline OP
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What car does the Ford tech on Youtube drive...he drives a Dodge Ram. In a video he explained there are some issues on Ford vehicles which havent been fixed in 10 years.

I dont believe they have their head around either Ecoboost or the 10 speed.


Re: 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT Cold Start Rattle [Re: Navi] #5372880 03/10/20 08:05 PM
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He sees all of the Ford issues but those eco Diesel's have issues too. I know a guy that had to have his whole fleet traded in on hemis as they were failing one after another (some limp mode problem that cost a lot to fix and parts weren't available readily). I don't know if this is common but my friend saw one come into Goodyear where he works with failed head gaskets.

The push for fuel mileage and lower emissions seems like it will keep causing issues like these in certain brands/models.


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