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Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: vivaUkraine] #5372757 03/10/20 05:54 PM
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super20dan Online Content
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Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
It's been what, like 50 years since American car companies been making poor cars and trucks. It amazes me how many "car guys" on BITOG buy used Chevys and Fords in 2020. Even in a very distant Ukraine, the glory of unreliability and poor craftsmanship of American cars was known, despite barely any American cars there. It's that famous. Why on Earth would someone get a 5-7 year old Chevy Equinox or similar, when there are Japanese? There is a perfect logical reason for domestic trio losing so much market share over the last 50 years. Yet there is no logical reason why there are so many not particularly bright Americans that still give them business, especially in a used market!!! bop

Pick up trucks are the exception, but only because there are barely any substitutes from foreign brands.

no need to say anymore


99 silverado 5.3
2003 tundra v6
1981 toyota cressida wagon
2003 kia sorento
04 toyota highlander 4cyl 2013 toyota rav4
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Brigadier] #5373074 03/11/20 02:16 AM
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Exhaustgases Offline
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Agenda driven regulations have ruined alot of the automotive industry. History is repeating itself almost like we are going back wards, back to the old model T days. New engines that crap out in 25,000 or less miles, and transmissions that won't make it to
100,000 miles. Crazy stuff.

Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Brigadier] #5373077 03/11/20 02:51 AM
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Olas Offline
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I've been telling people for YEARS that DI is not responsble for these problems - PCV and EGR are repsonsible for these problems.

You don't treat the symptom, you treat the cause....EGR can be switched off using your smartphone and PCV can use a different vacuum source - doing this will eliminate all intake system deposits.

Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5373101 03/11/20 03:53 AM
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Skippy722 Offline
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Agree

Anyone who owned and drove in the 1960s and 70s - especially Chrysler vehicles, never wants anything to do with carbs again.
That's like requesting points and distributors come back also........nada..... never again.


“THERMOQUAD!!! The only carburetor that punishes you for going wide open throttle!” - David Freiburger

But I agree 100%. Modern tech has given us fairly reliable vehicles pushing what would have been inconceivable amounts of power and fuel economy in that era.


2019 Ram 1500 Classic
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Olas] #5373183 03/11/20 07:46 AM
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WyrTwister Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again wink


PFI ?


Wyr
God bless
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Exhaustgases] #5373344 03/11/20 11:38 AM
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MCompact Offline
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Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Agenda driven regulations have ruined alot of the automotive industry. History is repeating itself almost like we are going back wards, back to the old model T days. New engines that crap out in 25,000 or less miles, and transmissions that won't make it to
100,000 miles. Crazy stuff.

LOL smirk2 crackmeup


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: MCompact] #5373350 03/11/20 11:48 AM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Agenda driven regulations have ruined alot of the automotive industry. History is repeating itself almost like we are going back wards, back to the old model T days. New engines that crap out in 25,000 or less miles, and transmissions that won't make it to
100,000 miles. Crazy stuff.

LOL smirk2 crackmeup





Yep. New name, same old troll.


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Olas] #5373812 03/11/20 07:54 PM
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caprice_2nv Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again wink


How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits? Both my cars are carbureted with high mileage but I've never had the heads off to see the valves. Slight pinging on the 305 in warm weather but the EGR valve isn't functioning anymore, likely the cause. 350 Oldsmobile never pings ever.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
05 Silverado 1500 4wd - 4.8/4L60E
79 Honda CX500
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: caprice_2nv] #5373820 03/11/20 08:01 PM
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spasm3 Online Happy
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Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits?


Carbs and PFI, MPFI all have fuel going over the intake valves that helps them stay cleaner. GDI has no fuel going across those valves. The only thing going across them is Air and PCV gasses, hence the intake valve build up.

I understand some manufactures are adding a port injector that runs when the engine is cold. That would should help keep them clean. I don't know which engines, i hear the ford ecoboost may get them.

Last edited by spasm3; 03/11/20 08:04 PM.

13 elantra 84k 5w30 synpwr
03 chevy avalanche 83k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 19000 miles m1 0w30
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: vivaUkraine] #5373856 03/11/20 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
Especially if you're poor you can't afford a car from a brand that has a 50 year old reputation for a poor craftsmanship, no? ???

I think American mentality of getting quantity over quality is equivalent, in many cases, of shooting one's self into a foot over longer term


50 year reputation for poor craftsmanship? I disagree. I agree on a late model equinox or similar being a poor choice (price being the main reason people buy them still) but a lot of taxi companies would not agree with your statement. Tons of early to mid 2000s Impala's with 3800s lasted a long time. I worked at a garage that did repairs on them and then also drove taxi part time for them while going back to school.

Lots of full size Caprices did police duty and then taxi duty for years and years. My 83 Caprice is holding up well for 36 years and 240k miles.

When I was a kid we had a 77 Toyota Corolla and an $800 79 Impala wagon that replaced it (got 2 years out of the Corolla before it biodegraded to the point the springs came into the trunk) the Impala lasted 6 years and was still in half decent shape but needed too many repairs to be worth fixing.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
05 Silverado 1500 4wd - 4.8/4L60E
79 Honda CX500
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: spasm3] #5374345 03/12/20 10:01 AM
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circuitsmith Offline
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Originally Posted by spasm3
GDI has no fuel going across those valves. The only thing going across them is Air and PCV gasses, hence the intake valve build up.

Combustion chamber gasses can also pass across at the beginning of the intake stroke.
Eliminate PCV fumes and you can still get deposits, as this study found:

https://docplayer.net/38978662-Cons...in-gasoline-direct-injection-engine.html


2017 Hyundai Tucson SE FWD
SuperTech synth, 5w-30, 5000mi/12mo OCI
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: WyrTwister] #5374358 03/12/20 10:10 AM
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Olas Offline
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Originally Posted by WyrTwister
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again wink


PFI ?


Port Fuel Injection, the type we used before GDI.

Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: caprice_2nv] #5374361 03/12/20 10:12 AM
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Olas Offline
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Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again wink


How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits? Both my cars are carbureted with high mileage but I've never had the heads off to see the valves. Slight pinging on the 305 in warm weather but the EGR valve isn't functioning anymore, likely the cause. 350 Oldsmobile never pings ever.



Carbs have very clean manifolds and very clean heads/valves. You are delivering a constant stream of fuel across those componnentns, and fuel is a very effective parts cleaner. The only place you see any buildup in a carb engine is the piston crown, same as any other engine. (maintenance still applies, same as any other platform)

Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Olas] #5375843 03/13/20 09:04 PM
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caprice_2nv Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Olas
GDI has never been a problem, never will be. we only feel this way because PFI used to fix a symptom, but PFI never fixed the problem. The problem stil exists, only difference is GDI does not address the symptom.

The problem is EGR and PCV used together - EGR introduces hot dry soot, PCV introduces cool, wet vapours. Put the two together and you get IVDs!

The solution is to re-engineer EGR and PCV systems so they dont cause the problem in the first place, OR, to leave systems unchanged and allow the problem to continue but start to address the symptoms again by way of fabricating a manifold to allow you to use PFI. mapping and calibrating this would be quite time consuming,

Carburettors are starting to look attractive again wink


How does a carbed engine compare to PFI and gdi when it comes to valve deposits? Both my cars are carbureted with high mileage but I've never had the heads off to see the valves. Slight pinging on the 305 in warm weather but the EGR valve isn't functioning anymore, likely the cause. 350 Oldsmobile never pings ever.



Carbs have very clean manifolds and very clean heads/valves. You are delivering a constant stream of fuel across those componnentns, and fuel is a very effective parts cleaner. The only place you see any buildup in a carb engine is the piston crown, same as any other engine. (maintenance still applies, same as any other platform)


The intake manifold and lifter valley looked like brand new on my 1976 350 with high mileage. Wish I could see the pistons and valves.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
05 Silverado 1500 4wd - 4.8/4L60E
79 Honda CX500
Re: Engine Rebuilder's view of GDI intake issues [Re: Brigadier] #5375868 03/13/20 09:33 PM
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WobblyElvis Online Content
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My son has a 2008 Cadillac with a 3.6 GDI engine. Over 205,000 miles with no problems related to the DI. No valve cleaning maintenance whatsoever. Currently own a hyundai with GDI. 90,000 miles without any intake cleaning and it runs fine. I had an ecotec 2.2 [ not GDI ] that had the PCV port down low between the intake ports as mentioned in the article. Car went bye bye due to an accident with 231,000 miles on it. Burned a qt every 4,000 miles. I haven't experienced any problems with GM or GDi designs. Quality of some parts like GM timing chains is another story.

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