Harbor freight in trouble

[JOD]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Bring manufacturing back to the USA.

Especially pharmaceuticals.

I don't mind spending more $$$ to have more Americans employed.


It looks like the average manufacturing wage in China in 2018 was $5/hr. Are we willing to spend twice as much for stuff? Unlikely.


Man, I haven't seen those wages? In major manufacturing centers, skilled welders are getting $2.50 an hour, semi-skilled assembly factories are closer to the minimum wage (roughly $2.15 an hour). The highest I've seen is about $2.80-$3.00 when a specific skill is in really high demand.

And with those wages, factory owners are still investing in as much automation as possible, since labor is "so expensive". So yeah, I just don't see most manufacturing coming back to the US. For critical industries (and I'd put pharmaceuticals at the top of the list) , this stuff isn't coming back without coordinated government intervention in the form of duties and tariffs. Lots of folks claim to want "made in US", but overwhelmingly folks have voted with their pocketbooks...

Additionally, I don't think most folks understand that it's the supply chains that make domestic manufacturing an untenable proposition. Let's say you want to make power tools. How many parts go into a drill? How much sub-assemblers are in the US? This stuff didn't leave overnight, and it's not realistic to expect it could come back overnight. It would take several years, and would only happen with long-standing structured public policies. Short term tariffs aren't moving supply chains long-term.

I don't see HF going out of business or closing tons of stores. I can see a store on the bubble getting 86'd due to even slower sales... Goods will come in, but yeah, things are delayed, and some of the delays will likely be a few months.

 

[StarCaller]

Quote
People are gonna have to start paying more to get goods and services on this side of the pond. Definitely agree with Pharmaceutical too.


companies/corporations are gonna have to start paying more to get services (workers) on this side of the pond /

 

[AdmdeVilleneuve]

Recent articles that I have read in various maritime related newsletters leads me to believe containers full of HF and WM products are on the way. Will there be some disruption? Sure, but the worst appears to be over in China. The question now is whether US ports and railroads will have the ability to smoothly handle the container ships due to arrive this spring. Same issue for other countries, like Italy and South Korea.
https://freightwaves.com/news/china-cargo-flows-rapidly-return-to-pre-coronavirus-levels

 

[FT92]

myself I don't think there will be any major shortages anywhere. Someone somewhere will pick up the slack till things get back to normal

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Bring manufacturing back to the USA.

Especially pharmaceuticals.

I don't mind spending more $$$ to have more Americans employed.


It looks like the average manufacturing wage in China in 2018 was $5/hr. Are we willing to spend twice as much for stuff? Unlikely.


Man, I haven't seen those wages? In major manufacturing centers, skilled welders are getting $2.50 an hour, semi-skilled assembly factories are closer to the minimum wage (roughly $2.15 an hour). The highest I've seen is about $2.80-$3.00 when a specific skill is in really high demand.


So you have first hand knowledge of wages in China? Then the wage differential is worse. I was curious and did a search and the $5/hr in manufacturing was common info from various sources. It's no wonder inexpensive items can be made in China and shipped here and sold for a buck or 2.

 

[AZjeff]

*

 

[demarpaint]

Interesting this is the first I'm hearing of this. I'm sure they'll figure it out, I doubt they'll go out of business anytime soon.

 

[Donald]

Americans buy too much "stuff" in general. As long as we have food and toilet paper we can live without most of the "stuff" we buy from China for 6 months or so.

 

[SeaJay]

A fair number of "the end of the world as we know it is upon us, and we better stock up before it hits" type view points are currently in fashion here and elsewhere.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Its a global economy...just doesn't make sense to have some items manufactured here anymore. Some of that we did to ourselves and you cannot just legislate manufacturing back here, plus there are many, many folks employed.


It's only Global on many items because we are ignorant and delusional.

The Chinese subsidize, we undervalue fuel and shipping costs and legislate pollution to someone else.

By not paying the true cost of things we have contrived something into existence that makes no sense. We have made relationships that make no economic sense except to those who take advantage of it without paying for it.

You realize we ship fuel up to 3000 miles for processing before it comes here, how unbelievably stupid do you need to be to believe we can continue shipping half of 200000+ ton ships empty?

If something doesn't make sense and we continue to do it anyway
it means there are hidden costs that will eventually erode our ability to be viable as a country.

No it IS NOT financially viable to ship a packet of raisins from China, nor is it viable to send seafood there to process it and send it back. It reminds of the 80% of recyclables that go overseas to sit in Cambodia or Pacific islands for kids to play with.

These low value items go back and forth because somebody else foots the bill and those selling the products take advantage of our stupidity and inefficiency. Sadly that someone else is likely our children and more than likely this will only stop when the issue comes to a head and at that point we then will have no monetary ability to influence and be SOL, beggars in the street.

What is even sadder is about the only thing we export in any volume is food and agrarian economies are always the poorest. Intellectual capital is valueless if you can't use it locally, give China a few more years the cycle will complete.

 

[ragtoplvr]

We have 2 containers full we can not get truck to the port. We have a date now. We ask about the faster container ship. Cost is scary and it is full anyway.Factory is at 1/2 staff but n one sick yet, so we may be allowed to go to full staff, assuming they can make it back. After our customers forcing us to go to china, now they are panicked. They expect us to make parts here and sell at China costs. And they had the audacity to demand a price cut.

Rod

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Bring manufacturing back to the USA.

Especially pharmaceuticals.

I don't mind spending more $$$ to have more Americans employed.


You say that, but given the prevalence of Chinesium outlets and the fawning over HF stuff on here, I suspect that the vast, VAST majority, even if they say they agree with you, will continue to shop for the cheapest "deal" out there, regardless of COO. That's the reason for the rise of the Dollarama, HF, Princess Auto...etc in the first place. People aren't willing to pay US-made money when they can get a "deal" on something produced offshore.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
ChinaMart and HF won't be the only ones. Lots and lots of construction materials (nuts, bolts, fasteners, etc) are made in China and aren't even made here anymore. This should be a lesson that we need to keep manufacturing here.


Agreed, unfortunately, I doubt it is a lesson we are willing to learn.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Donald
As long as we have food and toilet paper we can live without most of the "stuff" we buy from China for 6 months or so.

We can survive with "stuff" but the stores that sell it might have difficulty staying open.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Donald
Americans buy too much "stuff" in general. As long as we have food and toilet paper we can live without most of the "stuff" we buy from China for 6 months or so.


That's the Western way, we have a society whose function is now predicated on the concept of consumption. We've transitioned from a model where products were procured, serviced and repaired, all typically offered under one roof or via dedicated service centres, to one where volume of product, most of it offshore, is what maintains the viability of the operation peddling it and there is zero thought given to those former services or metrics for product quality. Once the product inevitably breaks, it gets landfilled or shipped overseas to be "recycled" and a new one is purchased, driving the cycle. Westerners are little islands of refuse production, set 'top our little hills of existential cycling, driving the economies of places like China whom we'll denigrate while gleefully taking the latest trinket from their hands.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by FT92
myself I don't think there will be any major shortages anywhere. Someone somewhere will pick up the slack till things get back to normal



I'm guessing you haven't seen the prices of Purell?

 

[krismoriah72]

Drove past the Chinese restaurant this weekend... all is well.

 

[Kira]

Knowledge really helps here. Most of us have none.

How much stuff can you live without? Buy once, cry once...then refrain from buying cheap goods.

Shame on many for never even thinking about how immoral "disposable stuff" is.

Whenever there's an international shakeup I pray we (as a planet) can shed the bottom 10% or 15% of cheap junk production.

I'm more comfortable with being labeled a "dreamer" than a "hippie economist". You do know anything which goes against "open markets" is vilified as hippie economics, right? No mention of pollution along the way is allowed.

A lot of the whole thing stinks. Measures of efficiency are taken at the wrong places.

 

[Job]

Walmart sells a lot of USA goods. I am surprised sometimes. Food and essentials too, which HF does not. I would be happy if HF went out of business, definitely not sad.

 

[P10crew]

This is what I need for this project.