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Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5371002 03/08/20 08:14 PM
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I’m not going to attempt to speak for him. I value his opinion so hopefully he will chime in soon. As far as “no real difference”, even if the difference is small it matters to me, one way or the other.

Edit: I see you keep going back and editing your posts so I’ll add that there’s more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I’ll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you’re ignoring. He will know what I’m referring to.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371006 03/08/20 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I’m not going to attempt to speak for him. I value his opinion so hopefully he will chime in soon. As far as “no real difference”, even if the difference is small it matters to me, one way or the other.


I'm sure it makes a big difference in Atlanta ... wink. Well, I guess my choice to use 5W-30 over 5W-20 falls into the same reason category. I really don't care what other people use, but there's really no scientific test data that I've seen that says using 5W-30 instead of 0W-20 or 5W-20 in ambient temperatures they are designed for is going to give any difference in start-up wear.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371008 03/08/20 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I’ll add that there’s more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I’ll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you’re ignoring. He will know what I’m referring to.


Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5371015 03/08/20 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I’ll add that there’s more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I’ll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you’re ignoring. He will know what I’m referring to.


Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?


Such as the engine speed. Lower engine speed during startup due to higher viscosity oils can cause slightly more wear during startup. It’s covered in one of the links he posted. It also covers why engines wear more during idle, if I remember correctly.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371029 03/08/20 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I’ll add that there’s more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I’ll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you’re ignoring. He will know what I’m referring to.


Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?


Such as the engine speed. Lower engine speed during startup due to higher viscosity oils can cause slightly more wear during startup. It’s covered in one of the links he posted. It also covers why engines wear more during idle, if I remember correctly.


A computer controlled engine doesn't idle at cold start-up any differently with xW-20 through xW-50.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5371031 03/08/20 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I’ll add that there’s more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I’ll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you’re ignoring. He will know what I’m referring to.


Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?


Such as the engine speed. Lower engine speed during startup due to higher viscosity oils can cause slightly more wear during startup. It’s covered in one of the links he posted. It also covers why engines wear more during idle, if I remember correctly.


A computer controlled engine doesn't idle at cold start-up any differently with xW-20 through xW-50.



This.


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Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5371046 03/08/20 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I’ll add that there’s more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I’ll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you’re ignoring. He will know what I’m referring to.


Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?


Such as the engine speed. Lower engine speed during startup due to higher viscosity oils can cause slightly more wear during startup. It’s covered in one of the links he posted. It also covers why engines wear more during idle, if I remember correctly.


A computer controlled engine doesn't idle at cold start-up any differently with xW-20 through xW-50.


I wasn’t talking about idle at cold startup.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371061 03/08/20 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn’t talking about idle at cold startup.


Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5371079 03/08/20 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn’t talking about idle at cold startup.


Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.


Oh boy. There’s more to an engine than just journal bearings. I’ll just wait for Gokhan’s input.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371092 03/08/20 09:30 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn’t talking about idle at cold startup.


Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.


Oh boy. There’s more to an engine than just journal bearings. I’ll just wait for Gokhan’s input.


He was talking specifically about journal bearings and idle speed. So what other parts in the engine use hydrodynamic lubrication where speed and viscosity matter? Shannow needs to join in too.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371111 03/08/20 09:49 PM
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Are you not disappointed in yourself to appeal to your view of authority instead of defending your position?
Given normal ambient conditions, let’s say Tomorrow morning it will be 57-60 where I am, I have 10w30 in the Tacoma.
When I crank it up to go to work do you think the oil is going to take longer to reach the top end, the oil squirters and the chain tensioner than if I had 0w20 in it? If so please explain how you reached that conclusion.


Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn’t talking about idle at cold startup.


Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.


Oh boy. There’s more to an engine than just journal bearings. I’ll just wait for Gokhan’s input.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
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Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: wolf_06] #5371176 03/08/20 11:52 PM
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What likely causes the most start-up engine wear is an oil filter with a leaky ADBV that causes oil galleries in the oiling system to drain out when the engine sits overnight. The whole purpose of the filter ADBV is to ensure near instant oil pressure and oil flow to all parts of the oiling system.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5371190 03/09/20 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
What countries would we be talking about in an English language manual other than the USA or Canada?
Mexico 🇲🇽 according to the manual.

Probably the reason is the high cost of synthetic oil there. Therefore, they recommend conventional oil (5W-30).
This is what I’ve been told in the past by a contact of mine. Economical reasons and availability in many other countries. It’s just not PC for corporations to come out and say.

That's exactly how it is!

Someone did a Walmart oil survey in Mexico a while back. It turns out true dino Group I oils are still the most popular oils there. They have phased out true dino Group I oils in the US a long time ago.

You can make PCMO (not HDEO) 15W-40, 20W-50, and 25W-50 from Group I base oil. That's because you can satisfy the CCS (cold-cranking viscosity) of these viscosity grades at the API's 15% upper Noack limit with a Group I base oil. You would need Group II for a HDEO 15W-40 though because of the 13% Noack limit for an HDEO.

These are the oil prices in Mexico:

----------------

Group I (15W, 20W, and 25W base oils and PCMO only)

Super Tech 25W-50 Group I dino: 43 ₱
Super Tech 20W-50 Group I dino: 49 ₱
Super Tech 15W-40 Group I dino PCMO (not HDEO): 49 ₱
Castrol Magnetec 20W-50 Group I dino: 49 ₱

----------------

Group II (minimally required for 5W base oils)

Mobil Super 5W-30 Group II: 95 ₱
Castrol GTX 20W-50 Group II: 99 ₱

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Group III (minimally required for 0W base oils)

Mobil 1 5W-30 Group III synthetic: 209 ₱

----------------

You get the picture. Most people there use thick Group I oils, which is half the price of conventional Group II oils sold in US. If they upgrade to a conventional Group II 5W-30, which cannot be Group I because the base oil is too thin to satisfy the 15% Noack limit, they pay twice the money, which is already a luxury. If they upgraded to a synthetic such as a 0W-20, they would have to pay four times the money, and they don't do that. That's exactly why the Mazda manual doesn't bother recommending 0W-20 for Mexico because it's not practical for economic reasons.

Cancun, Mexico Walmart oil selection and prices


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
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Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: wolf_06] #5371206 03/09/20 03:04 AM
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the op is from canada so 0w is good for him,if u can get a hold of 0w30 u have a win win even tho as mentioned a good soild brand 20w will be more than fine.
if u can get a RL 0w20 go for it.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: Gokhan] #5371213 03/09/20 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
What countries would we be talking about in an English language manual other than the USA or Canada?
Mexico 🇲🇽 according to the manual.

Probably the reason is the high cost of synthetic oil there. Therefore, they recommend conventional oil (5W-30).
This is what I’ve been told in the past by a contact of mine. Economical reasons and availability in many other countries. It’s just not PC for corporations to come out and say.

That's exactly how it is!


While that may be true for Mexico (I don't know myself having not visited there), it's certainly not true for Australia where most people would run a 5W30 or 0W40 full synthetic at a very similar price to a 0W20 synthetic. I would suggest the same would be true for much of Europe.

I'm not a big believer of the "price defence" of why people outside North America don't run 0W20.

Last edited by SR5; 03/09/20 03:54 AM. Reason: spelling

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Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
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