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Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: tig1] #5370342 03/08/20 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by PimTac
I think that there are too many variables to make a blanket statement like this. If you engine lasts 200,000 miles on 0w20 would it have made it to 220,000 with 5w30?

We just don’t know yet the argument continues.

What about 254K like my 2007 Fusion on 20wt oils at 10K OCIs?


that is impressive, was your fusion brand new? and was it using mobil 1 since day one?


2018 Mazda 3 GS 2.0 Skyactiv 6AT
Petro Canada Full Syn 0w20 + OEM filter
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: wolf_06] #5370345 03/08/20 01:24 AM
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xtell Offline
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My Chevy Cavalier has been running on 0w-20 without issues. It is supposed to have 5w-30 but I get better winter MPG using 0w-20.

nuff said,

xtell

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: SR5] #5370361 03/08/20 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by PowerSurge

but where are the tear down comparisons showing the ‘higher wear’. It’s one thing to say “higher wear probability” and “if” they come in contact you will have wear. Let’s see the tear downs.


I’m not here to do your homework for you, it’s been known for decades with lots of SAE papers published with real measured wear data. HTHS viscosity is the important parameter here as the primary line of defence with add packages being the secondary line of defence.

This is a good thread to get you started, with real SAE data provided
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4836029/1

After that Google is your friend.

BTW I’m not telling anyone what to to, just saying it’s an obvious spectrum of Cost Vs Risk. Find your happy zone and chill. I’ve started running thinner oils than before as I began to realise how low my wear risk was driving a family 4-cylinder wagon to drop my kids at school.


All that and yet you “started running thinner oils”. Hmmm. Interesting.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: Mike L. V.] #5370369 03/08/20 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike L. V.
Plenty of cars use 0W-20 for all conditions. Use it with ease.


Yes sir. These people recommending thicker oils are also causing themselves more startup wear. Something that I rarely see discussed.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5370372 03/08/20 03:55 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Mike L. V.
Plenty of cars use 0W-20 for all conditions. Use it with ease.

Yes sir. These people recommending thicker oils are also causing themselves more startup wear. Something that I rarely see discussed.


How about some links to official studies (SAE or similar) that proves that thicker oil causes more start-up wear. Or is that just parroting misinformation from the 'net. There's many factors involved in start-up wear.

I'm not talking about using 20W-50 at -25F (which is never recommend in any manual for obvious reasons), but say using xW-30 or xW-40 at a 50F start-up vs a xW-20 oil.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5370376 03/08/20 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Mike L. V.
Plenty of cars use 0W-20 for all conditions. Use it with ease.

Yes sir. These people recommending thicker oils are also causing themselves more startup wear. Something that I rarely see discussed.


How about some links to official studies that proves that thicker oil causes more start-up wear. Or is that just parroting misinformation from the 'net.


How about you lose the attitude and look it up yourself. There’s plenty of proof out there. Have a nice day. smile

Nice edit of your post, btw.



1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: wolf_06] #5370382 03/08/20 04:25 AM
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Olas Offline
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I have two differeing opinions in this;

First off - you need to look at the owners manual for the same car sold in any other country in the world - very often a car will spec 30 or 40 globally but then it will spec 20 for CAFE in NA. Get a Japanese, German and Australian copy of the owners manual and see what they suggest for the exact same engine.


Second - if its under warranty then it doesnt matter one bit - if it breaks they'll give you a new one for free so dont worry yourself just do what they say.



The sensible middle ground between these two opposite opinions is to buy and fit an Oil Temperature Gauge and keep your eye on it. If its going over 100c or 212f then you need to go up 1 grade, if the oil does NOT exceed those tempertures then keep doing what you're doing.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: Olas] #5370392 03/08/20 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Olas
I have two differeing opinions in this;

First off - you need to look at the owners manual for the same car sold in any other country in the world - very often a car will spec 30 or 40 globally but then it will spec 20 for CAFE in NA. Get a Japanese, German and Australian copy of the owners manual and see what they suggest for the exact same engine.


Second - if its under warranty then it doesnt matter one bit - if it breaks they'll give you a new one for free so dont worry yourself just do what they say.



The sensible middle ground between these two opposite opinions is to buy and fit an Oil Temperature Gauge and keep your eye on it. If its going over 100c or 212f then you need to go up 1 grade, if the oil does NOT exceed those tempertures then keep doing what you're doing.


I understand what you’re saying. Having said that, I sometimes tow my other vehicles around (approximately 6000 pounds vehicle and trailer) with my Tundra 5.7 liter V8. It has only had 0w-20 oil in it since new. It doesn’t use a drop of oil in the winter or summer heat. It gets up to 101 degrees F here in the summer. A family member has the same vehicle, only a year older with over 100,000 miles. He tows more weight and has only used 0w-20 oil since new. No ill effects and no using of oil. We both change oil at approx. 7000 miles. The truck he had before that was a 2008 Tundra 5.7 that had 295,XXX miles and it also only ran 0w-20 oil. Used no oil, ran perfectly fine when it was totaled in an accident. If I thought or had proof that I was doing my 5.7 harm by running 0w-20 oil I would change to a thicker oil in a heartbeat. Like I stated earlier, I see the same attitudes and words that I saw in the 1990’s over 5w-30 oil.

Increased wear from 0w-20 as compared to 5w-20, 5w-30, etc., etc. is a myth as far as my real world experience with daily driven vehicles. Would there be increased wear if they were driven like track cars? Maybe, maybe not.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5370398 03/08/20 05:26 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Mike L. V.
Plenty of cars use 0W-20 for all conditions. Use it with ease.

Yes sir. These people recommending thicker oils are also causing themselves more startup wear. Something that I rarely see discussed.

How about some links to official studies that proves that thicker oil causes more start-up wear. Or is that just parroting misinformation from the 'net.

How about you lose the attitude and look it up yourself. There’s plenty of proof out there. Have a nice day. smile


Just asking for some proof of the claim. As long as you don't do something crazy like use 20W-50 in -25F start-ups, and there's adequate oil flow - ie, the PD oil pump can effectively pump the oil, meaning the correct/appropriate viscosity is used for the ambient temperature - then start-up wear will not be a strong function (if any) of the viscosity.

So if you (or anyone else) can dig up an official study that shows more start-up wear occurs between xW-20, xW-30, xW-40 and xW-50 as a sole function of those different viscosities when appropriately used for their rated ambient temperature, then I'm all ears.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5370409 03/08/20 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix


Just asking for some proof of the claim. As long as you don't do something crazy like use 20W-50 in -25F start-ups, and there's adequate oil flow - ie, the PD oil pump can effectively pump the oil, meaning the correct/appropriate viscosity is used for the ambient temperature - then start-up wear will not be a strong function (if any) of the viscosity.

So if you (or anyone else) can dig up an official study that shows more start-up wear occurs between xW-20, xW-30, xW-40 and xW-50 as a sole function of those different viscosities when appropriately used for their rated ambient temperature, then I'm all ears.


For starters, give this a read: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3539152/1


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: Olas] #5370411 03/08/20 06:13 AM
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SR5 Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas

look at the owners manual for the same car sold in any other country in the world - very often a car will spec 30 or 40 globally but then it will spec 20 for CAFE in NA. Get a Japanese, German and Australian copy of the owners manual and see what they suggest for the exact same engine.


Here is one, Shannow got some photos of the Australian owners manual for the 2018 Camry Hybrid VVT-I

It says you can use 0W16, 0W20, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30 or 15W40 in their car.

So if you own a Camry, just follow the Toyota manual and use 0W16 or 0W20 or 5W20 or 5W30 or 10W30 or 15W40. Simple as that.

Most cars are far more tolerant of changes in oil viscosity than some BITOGers.

Ref:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4890579/1


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5370414 03/08/20 06:16 AM
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SR5 Offline
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by PowerSurge

but where are the tear down comparisons showing the ‘higher wear’. It’s one thing to say “higher wear probability” and “if” they come in contact you will have wear. Let’s see the tear downs.


I’m not here to do your homework for you, it’s been known for decades with lots of SAE papers published with real measured wear data. HTHS viscosity is the important parameter here as the primary line of defence with add packages being the secondary line of defence.

This is a good thread to get you started, with real SAE data provided
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4836029/1

After that Google is your friend.

BTW I’m not telling anyone what to to, just saying it’s an obvious spectrum of Cost Vs Risk. Find your happy zone and chill. I’ve started running thinner oils than before as I began to realise how low my wear risk was driving a family 4-cylinder wagon to drop my kids at school.


All that and yet you “started running thinner oils”. Hmmm. Interesting.


Because I like to examine the fundamental science, then think for myself and exercise freedom of choice. And I support, rather than criticise, anybody who does the same.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: Tahoe4Life] #5370456 03/08/20 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tahoe4Life
Originally Posted by tig1
My son uses M1 0-20EP in his large V8 in his GMC Denali. It has around 120K.


I also use M1 0-20EP in my Tahoe. Now has 80K miles. I do both highway and nasty gridlock in jungle heat.


Same engines = I have 2.
Thinking about the evolution of engine design and manufacturing. Many times it’s said here SAE has said something for decades. I ask what decade matters. We also hear folks argue over “tolerance” with someone jumping in that bearing tolerance has always been tight. Sure, individual sets of bearings have … but “tolerance” in the last decade means the entire engine is precisely made and modeled with FEA … and can be modeled for what happens during the heat up cycle … what that changes in the design of a piston (just one example) … what winds up on the blueprint.
My deep skirted 6 bolt main blocks are fine with 0w20 … and the hardware can handle 5w30 later if needed.
But agree some past oil spec changes were just a paperwork exercise.
Most of my DD’s have been LT’s and most had a 5.3L.
I traded a 2010 on a 2018 and went from 5w30 to 0w20 despite coming up from 300/320 to 355/383 and getting it early.
Aside from many hours to design and model the new heads (and compliant exhaust flanges) … several changes came in lube and cooling (2010 vs 2018)
Variable displacement oil pump, piston oil jets, oil coolers, capacity went from 6 quarts to 8 quarts, more logic controls in the ECM based on 0w20 in NA, electric fans, grill shutters, etc. 0w20 also forced the use of high quality base stock lubes.
These 5.3L’s are running quieter on 0w20 than past 5.3’s on 30’s and even 40’s …

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: Gokhan] #5370565 03/08/20 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
0W-20 is the recommended oil for most new BMWs and Audis driven on the autobahns at 140 mph now.


But the manual would recommend a thicker oil if these cars were driven on the track, no?

Genuine question for anyone who's actually driven one of these cars on the autobahn at those speeds - how hard is the engine working to cruise at 140mph? Obviously it depends on the particular model, but some of these cars are putting out 600+ hp.

My 100hp unfaired motorcycle will do 140mph, but it would be a proper Eyetalian tuneup. I reckon a high end German luxury car would have a far easier time of it.

Re: 0w20 for heavy driving? [Re: PowerSurge] #5370660 03/08/20 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Mike L. V.
Plenty of cars use 0W-20 for all conditions. Use it with ease.


Yes sir. These people recommending thicker oils are also causing themselves more startup wear. Something that I rarely see discussed.


That has been disproven multiple times. Your personal paradigm and anecdotes are not scientific evidence.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

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