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Re: 100 octane ethanol free gasoline with TC-W3 [Re: mez] #5370363 03/08/20 03:31 AM
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Olas Offline
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Originally Posted by mez
I can purchase the 100 octane ethanol free racing gasoline for $9.79 gallon.


What does 100LL cost at your local airfield? Gotta be cheaper than 9.79! Others have mentioned buuying cheap pump gas and adding water to remove the ethanol even cheaper again.

What is the compression ratio of the equipment? What AKI does it actually *need*?

Re: 100 octane ethanol free gasoline with TC-W3 [Re: Cujet] #5370378 03/08/20 04:14 AM
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Olas Offline
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Quote
From Sunocco website:

NOTE: 100LL Avgas has not been replaced with an unleaded 100 octane fuel, despite a serious push to do so. Reason: It's exceedingly difficult to make a viable NON OXYGENATED 100 octane unleaded gasoline.

I suggested two fuels above that will make a great choice for OPE.

I agree that 100UL is not here yet, however I disagree that it is difficult to make - its a simple as adding a gallon or two of Toluene which is rated around 115-120 octane.

Re: 100 octane ethanol free gasoline with TC-W3 [Re: Kestas] #5370444 03/08/20 07:29 AM
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hatt Offline
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MA has some non ethanol stations according to pure-gas.org. I'd start there and see if something is local before buying $10/gal race gas.


Originally Posted by Kestas
I do exactly what ARCOgraphite posted above.

I use beefy 3L glass containers, discarded acid jugs from our lab. Use your resourcefulness to decant the gas from the water/alcohol. I use a length of plastic tube to siphon out the water, and store the E0 gas in the container with the bit of water on the bottom.

I'm so glad can put my card in the machine and pump out REC90.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo 400 SD 15W-30, Wix 57502
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: 100 octane ethanol free gasoline with TC-W3 [Re: Olas] #5370483 03/08/20 08:26 AM
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Cujet Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
[quote]
I agree that 100UL is not here yet, however I disagree that it is difficult to make - its a simple as adding a gallon or two of Toluene which is rated around 115-120 octane.


Toluene is 114 octane (R+M)/2 and when blended with unleaded gasoline will raise the octane by a direct amount. Example: A 50-50 mix of 87 unleaded and toluene will result in 100 octane. (87+114)/2 = 100.

Toluene is a wonderful fuel additive, and in fact a wonderful fuel itself, for turbocharged engines that operate with lots of heat. However, in large quantities, it's difficult to atomize and will result in a very poor idle with a fuel injected car, and no possibility of cold idle at all with many carburetor equipped engines. It's also a terrible fuel additive in cold locations due to the above.

Long ago (late 70's to early 80's) I worked for a company that developed engine components for Ford Motorsport (SVO) and raced turbocharged Ford cars on a professional level. We learned about Toluene from the F1 teams operating turbocharged engines. We employed it with good results and were able to make 750 reliable HP from 1.7L engines. Subsequently, I owned turbocharged vehicles and used it.

20% was about the limit in non race use. Attempts to take the 94 octane base component of 100LL Avgas without the lead, and add enough toluene to meet the 100 octane requirements results in an unusable fuel. Attempts have been made to add components that enhance starting and low speed operation, without success.

The F1 teams heated their toluene based fuels to 300 deg F before it was injected. That was the secret to it's use.

Last edited by Cujet; 03/08/20 08:28 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: 100 octane ethanol free gasoline with TC-W3 [Re: Cujet] #5370501 03/08/20 08:46 AM
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Olas Offline
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Originally Posted by Cujet
[quote=Olas]
Quote

I agree that 100UL is not here yet, however I disagree that it is difficult to make - its a simple as adding a gallon or two of Toluene which is rated around 115-120 octane.


Toluene is 114 octane (R+M)/2 and when blended with unleaded gasoline will raise the octane by a direct amount. Example: A 50-50 mix of 87 unleaded and toluene will result in 100 octane. (87+114)/2 = 100.

Toluene is a wonderful fuel additive, and in fact a wonderful fuel itself, for turbocharged engines that operate with lots of heat. However, in large quantities, it's difficult to atomize and will result in a very poor idle with a fuel injected car, and no possibility of cold idle at all with many carburetor equipped engines. It's also a terrible fuel additive in cold locations due to the above.

Long ago (late 70's to early 80's) I worked for a company that developed engine components for Ford Motorsport (SVO) and raced turbocharged Ford cars on a professional level. We learned about Toluene from the F1 teams operating turbocharged engines. We employed it with good results and were able to make 750 reliable HP from 1.7L engines. Subsequently, I owned turbocharged vehicles and used it.

20% was about the limit in non race use. Attempts to take the 94 octane base component of 100LL Avgas without the lead, and add enough toluene to meet the 100 octane requirements results in an unusable fuel. Attempts have been made to add components that enhance starting and low speed operation, without success.

The F1 teams heated their toluene based fuels to 300 deg F before it was injected. That was the secret to it's use.



What you say is true, but was not within the scope of the original question so I did not feel it necessary to mention. The question was solely about unleaded 100 octane, so I answered his question accordingly.

Re: 100 octane ethanol free gasoline with TC-W3 [Re: Olas] #5370908 03/08/20 06:59 PM
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Cujet Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
What you say is true, but was not within the scope of the original question so I did not feel it necessary to mention. The question was solely about unleaded 100 octane, so I answered his question accordingly.

Oops, sorry for the thread drift, sometimes I get carried away and lose sight of the OP's question.

I keep mama's Polaris ATV filled with VP-C9, I took it out and ran it just now, and it runs great. It's not run in at least 2 years, maybe more. I've got to admit that the C9 fuel is absolutely amazing, as it never seems to go bad. Also in my Stihl leaf blower, the C9 gives a little more RPM than ethanol free 90 octane.

I've had engines unused for years "fire right up" with C9.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
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