I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
Ford....in trouble??
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Originally Posted by pbm
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management IMO...
I dunno, the times change, but all of 'em seem to have done something disastrous at some time. GM and ignition switches, VW and dieselgate, Ford and exploding Pinto's (which they then duplicated on the Vic's years later). The list goes on.
Call me dubious but I have a strong suspicion that they will recoup and regroup and come to the top again.
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management IMO...
I dunno, the times change, but all of 'em seem to have done something disastrous at some time. GM and ignition switches, VW and dieselgate, Ford and exploding Pinto's (which they then duplicated on the Vic's years later). The list goes on.
Call me dubious but I have a strong suspicion that they will recoup and regroup and come to the top again.
Originally Posted by CKN
The F150 sales are flat.
There are plenty of naysayers that claim one has nothing to do with the other, but I think they're running out of consumers who can afford them.
I just reviewed the F-150 inventory on my local Ford dealer's lot. The median price of their entire stock of F-150s, not including the Raptor, is $49,816. Is there really a sufficient market for this, considering the F-150 is not the only game in town? If these things are rotting on the lot, who's to blame besides Ford and their greed? Of course they want to ditch the Fiesta, Focus and Fusion in favor of this business model, but it may just backfire. And when gas prices spike again, wow are they going to be hurting.
The F150 sales are flat.
There are plenty of naysayers that claim one has nothing to do with the other, but I think they're running out of consumers who can afford them.
I just reviewed the F-150 inventory on my local Ford dealer's lot. The median price of their entire stock of F-150s, not including the Raptor, is $49,816. Is there really a sufficient market for this, considering the F-150 is not the only game in town? If these things are rotting on the lot, who's to blame besides Ford and their greed? Of course they want to ditch the Fiesta, Focus and Fusion in favor of this business model, but it may just backfire. And when gas prices spike again, wow are they going to be hurting.
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^^^^^ lets be real msrp median of 50k on those fords. if you can't get 10-12k off you're doing something wrong. not saying 38k isn't a lot of money, but I know at least with the fca ram you can get this all day long w/out trying.
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Just a few months back, we could get new F150 regular cab 4WD trucks (dual port V6) for $25k.
As a 2nd vehicle (if you had another for more passengers) that was a deal.
As a 2nd vehicle (if you had another for more passengers) that was a deal.
Originally Posted by earthbound
^^^^^ lets be real msrp median of 50k on those fords. if you can't get 10-12k off you're doing something wrong. not saying 38k isn't a lot of money, but I know at least with the fca ram you can get this all day long w/out trying.
This. Sticker msrp is meaningless.
^^^^^ lets be real msrp median of 50k on those fords. if you can't get 10-12k off you're doing something wrong. not saying 38k isn't a lot of money, but I know at least with the fca ram you can get this all day long w/out trying.
This. Sticker msrp is meaningless.
Originally Posted by wdn
Ford is going the way of Studebaker. By cutting out cars they are no longer a full time auto maker they are a niche player, regardless of current size or market share. Despite fads and trends cars are not going anywhere and it just takes $4 gas again like 10 years ago or the next economic downturn to move people back to cars. Where will Ford be then? Gone.
Then start building cars again when cars start selling. Gas is going to have to get pretty high for people to give up their SUVs and crossovers to drive a shoebox.
Ford is going the way of Studebaker. By cutting out cars they are no longer a full time auto maker they are a niche player, regardless of current size or market share. Despite fads and trends cars are not going anywhere and it just takes $4 gas again like 10 years ago or the next economic downturn to move people back to cars. Where will Ford be then? Gone.
Then start building cars again when cars start selling. Gas is going to have to get pretty high for people to give up their SUVs and crossovers to drive a shoebox.
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by wdn
Ford is going the way of Studebaker. By cutting out cars they are no longer a full time auto maker they are a niche player, regardless of current size or market share. Despite fads and trends cars are not going anywhere and it just takes $4 gas again like 10 years ago or the next economic downturn to move people back to cars. Where will Ford be then? Gone.
Then start building cars again when cars start selling. Gas is going to have to get pretty high for people to give up their SUVs and crossovers to drive a shoebox.
Why should anyone give up a crossover that gets 30mpg plus?
Originally Posted by wdn
Ford is going the way of Studebaker. By cutting out cars they are no longer a full time auto maker they are a niche player, regardless of current size or market share. Despite fads and trends cars are not going anywhere and it just takes $4 gas again like 10 years ago or the next economic downturn to move people back to cars. Where will Ford be then? Gone.
Then start building cars again when cars start selling. Gas is going to have to get pretty high for people to give up their SUVs and crossovers to drive a shoebox.
Why should anyone give up a crossover that gets 30mpg plus?
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by wdn
Ford is going the way of Studebaker. By cutting out cars they are no longer a full time auto maker they are a niche player, regardless of current size or market share. Despite fads and trends cars are not going anywhere and it just takes $4 gas again like 10 years ago or the next economic downturn to move people back to cars. Where will Ford be then? Gone.
Then start building cars again when cars start selling. Gas is going to have to get pretty high for people to give up their SUVs and crossovers to drive a shoebox.
Why should anyone give up a crossover that gets 30mpg plus?
They aren't going to.
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by wdn
Ford is going the way of Studebaker. By cutting out cars they are no longer a full time auto maker they are a niche player, regardless of current size or market share. Despite fads and trends cars are not going anywhere and it just takes $4 gas again like 10 years ago or the next economic downturn to move people back to cars. Where will Ford be then? Gone.
Then start building cars again when cars start selling. Gas is going to have to get pretty high for people to give up their SUVs and crossovers to drive a shoebox.
Why should anyone give up a crossover that gets 30mpg plus?
They aren't going to.
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Originally Posted by pbm
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
There were folks that put 3-4 transmissions in their Odyssey and still bought another Honda
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
There were folks that put 3-4 transmissions in their Odyssey and still bought another Honda
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by pbm
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
There were folks that put 3-4 transmissions in their Odyssey and still bought another Honda
Probably true but the Odyssey is not Honda's entry level vehicle...in fact I'd guess that many Odyssey owners bought them because of good experiences with previously owned Hondas. I want Ford to succeed but I think the culture at American car companies is a big part of the problem (short term thinking geared toward maximum profit and compensation...in an earlier thread I gave Mulally's 'golden parachute' as an example..)
Originally Posted by pbm
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
There were folks that put 3-4 transmissions in their Odyssey and still bought another Honda
Probably true but the Odyssey is not Honda's entry level vehicle...in fact I'd guess that many Odyssey owners bought them because of good experiences with previously owned Hondas. I want Ford to succeed but I think the culture at American car companies is a big part of the problem (short term thinking geared toward maximum profit and compensation...in an earlier thread I gave Mulally's 'golden parachute' as an example..)
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Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by pbm
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
There were folks that put 3-4 transmissions in their Odyssey and still bought another Honda
Probably true but the Odyssey is not Honda's entry level vehicle...in fact I'd guess that many Odyssey owners bought them because of good experiences with previously owned Hondas. I want Ford to succeed but I think the culture at American car companies is a big part of the problem (short term thinking geared toward maximum profit and compensation...in an earlier thread I gave Mulally's 'golden parachute' as an example..)
I agree that the culture is an issue, and that's evident in GM as well. Can Ford pivot back into making small cars if the market in North America changes? I don't know. Recall that Ford still produces cars in Europe, so I don't believe they are abandoning them altogether, just pulling what doesn't sell from the North American market.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by pbm
I have 3 Fords in the family (2014 Focus 5spd M/T, a 2016 Escape 2.5, and a recently acquired 2009 Fusion 2.3). All 3 have been very reliable. Having said that, I think Ford did irreparable damage to the company with their disastrous DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus. Every car company makes duds...but when you keep selling that dud for 7 years..you destroy your reputation. How can Ford expect someone to 'move up' to an Edge, Explorer etc..after getting burned on their Focus. Poor management decision, IMO...
There were folks that put 3-4 transmissions in their Odyssey and still bought another Honda
Probably true but the Odyssey is not Honda's entry level vehicle...in fact I'd guess that many Odyssey owners bought them because of good experiences with previously owned Hondas. I want Ford to succeed but I think the culture at American car companies is a big part of the problem (short term thinking geared toward maximum profit and compensation...in an earlier thread I gave Mulally's 'golden parachute' as an example..)
I agree that the culture is an issue, and that's evident in GM as well. Can Ford pivot back into making small cars if the market in North America changes? I don't know. Recall that Ford still produces cars in Europe, so I don't believe they are abandoning them altogether, just pulling what doesn't sell from the North American market.
Pivoting back to cars should not be too difficult , Ford and most manufacturers SUV's are just a tall hat on a common (car)platform.
Going back to a car (hat)on a shared platform is not going to be hard ,a lot of these vehicles were already built in the same building.
so untangle your undergarments and relax, cars will come back if there are enough buyers- buyers not opinions.
Going back to a car (hat)on a shared platform is not going to be hard ,a lot of these vehicles were already built in the same building.
so untangle your undergarments and relax, cars will come back if there are enough buyers- buyers not opinions.
Originally Posted by honeeagle
Pivoting back to cars should not be too difficult , Ford and most manufacturers SUV's are just a tall hat on a common (car)platform.
Going back to a car (hat)on a shared platform is not going to be hard ,a lot of these vehicles were already built in the same building.
so untangle your undergarments and relax, cars will come back if there are enough buyers- buyers not opinions.
Isn't Ford still producing cars in other markets? Bringing back cars if the market shifts is a non issue.
Pivoting back to cars should not be too difficult , Ford and most manufacturers SUV's are just a tall hat on a common (car)platform.
Going back to a car (hat)on a shared platform is not going to be hard ,a lot of these vehicles were already built in the same building.
so untangle your undergarments and relax, cars will come back if there are enough buyers- buyers not opinions.
Isn't Ford still producing cars in other markets? Bringing back cars if the market shifts is a non issue.
Agree that Ford is way too conservative, they need to get aggressive and make a "Corolla killer"
The big 3 are too invested in trucks and building some (not all) lousy vehicles for decades. Telling your customers to go screw themselves when they have a problem with their vehicle is bad business sense and is the reason they lost market share. If gas prices go through the roof again like they did in 2008 or the coronavirus PANIC gets much worse all three will be back in DC with their hats in hand.
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Lot of nonsense in this thread. I'm not worried about Ford's viability going into the near term and beyond. They are positioning to pivot to EV's as technology allows. Electric F150 due out soon. Mustang Mach E next year. Likely a mid size SUV EV in the pipeline which they'll give a peak at later this year with a prototype. Don't forget their stake in Rivian EV manufacturing.
But apparently over 100 years in the car manufacturing business does not exceed the collective business sense here on bitog ... rofl.
But apparently over 100 years in the car manufacturing business does not exceed the collective business sense here on bitog ... rofl.
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Lot of nonsense in this thread. I'm not worried about Ford's viability going into the near term and beyond. They are positioning to pivot to EV's as technology allows. Electric F150 due out soon. Mustang Mach E next year. Likely a mid size SUV EV in the pipeline which they'll give a peak at later this year with a prototype. Don't forget their stake in Rivian EV manufacturing.
But apparently over 100 years in the car manufacturing business does not exceed the collective business sense here on bitog ... rofl.
Here's some "sense":
For the fourth quarter of 2019, Ford reported a net loss of $1.7 billion, or 42 cents a share, compared with a loss of $100 million, or 3 cents a share, a year earlier.
The quarter included a loss of $2.2 billion due to higher contributions to its employee pension plans, something it disclosed last month.
Revenue in the quarter fell 5% to $39.7 billion, above the $36.5 billion Wall Street had expected.
Ford's adjusted free cash flow fell 67% in the fourth quarter to $500 million, including the $600 million cost of bonuses related to a new labor deal with the United Auto Workers union. The UAW deal also played a role in driving North American automotive profit margins down to 2.8% in the fourth quarter.
Ford said its operating losses in China last year totaled $771 million, including a loss of $207 million in the fourth quarter. It lost $1.5 billion in 2018. Ford's market share in China in the fourth quarter fell to 2% from 2.3% last year.
Ford's China sales fell about 15% in the fourth quarter and 26% for the year as it continued to lose ground in its second-biggest market. Ford has been struggling to revive sales in China since its business began slumping in late 2017.
Seems like that's not NONSENSE but VERY concerning.
Btw Sears is/was in business over 100 years..... look where they are!
Lot of nonsense in this thread. I'm not worried about Ford's viability going into the near term and beyond. They are positioning to pivot to EV's as technology allows. Electric F150 due out soon. Mustang Mach E next year. Likely a mid size SUV EV in the pipeline which they'll give a peak at later this year with a prototype. Don't forget their stake in Rivian EV manufacturing.
But apparently over 100 years in the car manufacturing business does not exceed the collective business sense here on bitog ... rofl.
Here's some "sense":
For the fourth quarter of 2019, Ford reported a net loss of $1.7 billion, or 42 cents a share, compared with a loss of $100 million, or 3 cents a share, a year earlier.
The quarter included a loss of $2.2 billion due to higher contributions to its employee pension plans, something it disclosed last month.
Revenue in the quarter fell 5% to $39.7 billion, above the $36.5 billion Wall Street had expected.
Ford's adjusted free cash flow fell 67% in the fourth quarter to $500 million, including the $600 million cost of bonuses related to a new labor deal with the United Auto Workers union. The UAW deal also played a role in driving North American automotive profit margins down to 2.8% in the fourth quarter.
Ford said its operating losses in China last year totaled $771 million, including a loss of $207 million in the fourth quarter. It lost $1.5 billion in 2018. Ford's market share in China in the fourth quarter fell to 2% from 2.3% last year.
Ford's China sales fell about 15% in the fourth quarter and 26% for the year as it continued to lose ground in its second-biggest market. Ford has been struggling to revive sales in China since its business began slumping in late 2017.
Seems like that's not NONSENSE but VERY concerning.
Btw Sears is/was in business over 100 years..... look where they are!
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Originally Posted by honeeagle
Pivoting back to cars should not be too difficult , Ford and most manufacturers SUV's are just a tall hat on a common (car)platform.
Going back to a car (hat)on a shared platform is not going to be hard ,a lot of these vehicles were already built in the same building.
so untangle your undergarments and relax, cars will come back if there are enough buyers- buyers not opinions.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/last-chevrolet-impala-built
Pivoting back to cars should not be too difficult , Ford and most manufacturers SUV's are just a tall hat on a common (car)platform.
Going back to a car (hat)on a shared platform is not going to be hard ,a lot of these vehicles were already built in the same building.
so untangle your undergarments and relax, cars will come back if there are enough buyers- buyers not opinions.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/last-chevrolet-impala-built
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