2018 Navigator Turbo Wastegate failure (F150, Raptor, Expedition,Ecoboost)

[Navi]

Weeks ago my Navigator came out of the dealership for the 4th time. 1st time back in March then 10R80 transmission failed at 70000 miles, last 3 times was as a result of camphaser problems and cold start rattle.

Currently my car is back at the dealership for turbo wastegate failure. The solution is turbo replacement.

I post this thread so others can learn from my experience. Those with 3.5 liter Ecoboosts, 2nd generation like Ford F150, Ford Raptor, Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator.

 

[Navi]

I do feel that someone can feel confident buying a 2020 or better yet a 2021. There is a saying...dont buy first model year...its best to wait until it matures.

 

[14Accent]

You've already got 70k on a 2018? Wow...

That being said, completely RIDICULOUS the issues you're having. There is zero, and I mean ZERO reason they should be having issues with the 3.5EB in 2018 and beyond. These engines are old news by now. Either find a new vendor for the parts that knows what they're doing, or design a new engine that doesn't have the obvious fundamental flaws that the EB engines do.

Perfect example, just for kicks: the coolant pipes that feed the turbo are connected to the turbo via jiffy-connects. You know, the kind that attach ATF cooler hoses to the radiator? Who's bright idea was that?! Let's use rubber (or nitrile or silicone or whatever) seals inside an aluminum fitting screwed into an iron center-section of a turbo. A quick Google search returns thousands of results about that issue.

I'll take a pushrod V8 any day, even with the new DOD and VVT motors. DOD, by the way, is a more efficient way of making big-cube power with small-cube economy than taking a small-cube engine and forcing it to make big-cube power numbers.

Now, this isn't to say that DOD doesn't have it's issues: AFM lifter failures and oil usage, and Honda VCM / piston ring issues. That being said, I've seen far fewer AFM lifter failures than I have EB timing or turbo related failures.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by 14Accent
Now, this isn't to say that DOD doesn't have it's issues: AFM lifter failures and oil usage, and Honda VCM / piston ring issues. That being said, I've seen far fewer AFM lifter failures than I have EB timing or turbo related failures.

Blasphemy!
Everyone knows forced induction is easily as/more reliable than NA.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Now, this isn't to say that DOD doesn't have it's issues: AFM lifter failures and oil usage, and Honda VCM / piston ring issues. That being said, I've seen far fewer AFM lifter failures than I have EB timing or turbo related failures.

Blasphemy!
Everyone knows forced induction is easily as/more reliable than NA.

DoD is trash, turbos are far superior.

 

[double vanos]

Last year Ford sold around 900,000 F150s. I don't know what the ratio of turbocharged engines to NA engines is, but I'm sure it's quite a few EB engines in one year. I wish I knew what the % problem rate was. There's a lot of F150 owners that drive 100k miles then trade unaware they were supposed to worry about timing chains, phasers, turbo leaks and bad transmissions. And they buy a new one - that how Ford stays #1 in truck sales.
Not defending Ford by any stretch but I do wonder how bad the problem really is: 1%, 10%, 40%, 60%...?

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by double vanos

Not defending Ford by any stretch but I do wonder how bad the problem really is: 1%, 10%, 40%, 60%...?


It can't be very high....

I personally know about 2 dozen EcoBoost owners (4 in my family) and no one is having any problems with anything.

 

[SoNic67]

I generally think that people that buy Turbo boosted engines deserve what's coming to them. Or they trade them in before problems arise but then they keep paying the bank for new cars instead of repairing the turbo, so it's not really a gain.

I am a long time Ford owner, work on my cars, still have two Ford vehicles as of now, and I had owned four other Ford before. All of them lasted about 200k or until I got bored of them (manual transmission got me knee pains in stop and go traffic). I would never get a car with Turbo, so they lost my business.
Same I won't get a DOD engine or an Gasoline Injection one that does not have the extra "cleaning" injectors in front of the valves.

My newest cars are non-turbo too - a Kia Soul (non-GDI) for my wife and a Toyota RAV4 (V6 non-GDI) for me.

 

[Navi]

It all depends on the engine and when it was made. Mine was produced January of 2018 which is early production. It still has the handscrew oil plug. In newer production they switched to a traditional oil plug bolt. So there has been quite a few production changes since mine was produced. One notable change is the use of different camphasers. I do believe the 10R80 was modified.

While there has been lots of trouble with 3.5 liter Ecoboost there hasnt been that same trouble with 2.7 liter Ecoboost.

Also keep in mind I put high miles on in urban traffic.

10R80 failed at 70k
1st and 2nd work done on camphasers/engine at 84000 miles
3rd work done with "CD" camphasers at around 105k miles
Turbo Wastegate problem 110k miles
Starter replaced around 100k

Im in the dealership now and the advisor told me they heard a knocking. They have to open the engine and check for metal. It might need an engine. This will be a new problem on top of the wastegate.

This video explains the turbo wastegate issue.



Im not certain if anyone will have issues with newer production but I do know if you get a 2020 there has been several modifications addressing the issues Ive been having. These modifications might or might not resolve it but I suspect your experience will be better than mine.

Always get the extended Ford warranty!!!

 

[Navi]

I also strongly suggest utilizing a more "stout" oil then what Ford suggests on Ecoboost engines and use a 5k change interval. For whatever reason the oil goes in 5W30 and comes out 5W20. I suggest Mobil Delvac 1 5W40. I had two runs tested by Blackstone and each came back with a glowing summary beating the average in every category and keep in mind this is an NYC livery car.

I know about extended drain and those Ford engineers who said this and that...but I will stick with going thicker with a shorter interval.

 

[Mikey V.]

Far too many repair problems for a 2018. A 2018 should not be having this many problems even with 100K. Oil thickness won't cure design failures IMO. Maybe it was just an off production day.

 

[Navi]

I might point out many trade in F150s with 3.5 Ecoboost have the rattle and other noises. The dealership has ways of masking these issues like using thick 10W40 or 15W50 oil. One used car trick to mask obvious engine problems is to put super thick oil in there.

Notice when you go into Walmart they have a lot of 10W40 and 15W50. A lot of people use these oils as a bandaid to engine problems and thats why Walmart has so much. The 10W40 has a CSt@100C of 16 which is nearly twice as thick as 5W20. 15W40 comes in at 20 or twice as thick as many 5W30 oils. These thick oils mask and bandaid obvious issues. Then when you go to change the oil with 5W30 Motorcraft Semi-Synth...wow...whats all that noise??

 

[Mikey V.]

Talking to a lot of Ford owners they all steer clear of the EcoBoost and opt for the 5.0.

 

[1978elcamino]

I would like to know more about the tranny issue, OP did you previously make a thread on it I might read or learn about the failure?

 

[Navi]

Well...you will be the first to know when it fails. I was on the highway when suddenly...I think while accelerating...I heard&felt 2 bangs which immediately popped a code putting on the dash wrench light. I knew exactly what was happening. It was still able to accelerate so I put it on cruise control at 60 mph and it seemed to work. It was 10pm and I was about 100 miles south of the dealership but I did make it. I got it into the dealership parking lot and tried to reverse...no reverse. It took 3 weeks for dealership to replace mainly because of Fords lengthy warranty approval process. New transmission.

Before it failed I did get curious shifts around 30000 miles. Not sure if that was a sign or not. Every now and then I would get a curious shift...it wasnt often but when it happened you noticed it.

The new transmission doesnt have any curious shifts. Every 10k miles I have been reseting the adaptive transmission memory and had the fluid flushed at 30k on the new trans. Im not sure if that will make the tranny last longer but I thought I need to try something new and did what the Ford tech on youtube suggested. I use Forscan for the reset.

For the tranny flush it costs $300 at the dealership. Pretty much this transmission is dealer service only. I researched it and I wouldnt trust any mechanic to do it. For the 6 speed and my MKT I drop the trans fluid in my driveway but the 10 speed doesnt have a drain plug or any of that.

I saw a diagram in a parts catalog dated June 2019 for the trans. Im assuming they updated something...

I was lucky that it happened so late because if I had to stop for traffic Im not sure what would have happened. This was a straight shot and the cruise control seemed to manage it well enough.

 

[Navi]

One thing to note. Fords warranty process is insanely lengthy and it seems like any time a part is needed it needs to be ordered. No parts are stocked even rotors, endlinks and starters. My starter needed to be replaced and it literally took two weeks. The dealership will make you hot and you might even be calling and writing Ford about it. Its not the dealers fault but Fords. Fords warranty process is simply insane. Also Ford gets its parts everywhere but America so anything like lets say camphasers is always backordered.

Lets just say when you say the word camphaser then I will tell you your truck going to be offline for over a month and you might be taking it back in a few weeks for another try. Lets hope the revised camphasers work...

I owned a Suburban and let me say this. Its an even worse time with General Motors. The 2015 Suburban was a complete lemon with brakes failing, steam coming from the radiator, etc.

I think you will want to drive your truck to that guy on youtube and let him fix it after dealing with dealership.

 

[domer10]

Like I stated, this engine is definitely not intended for the use that you require, I would look at getting a Escalade like a 18-19 if you need a luxury suv....anything but this engine for stop and go, NYC use. I think these eco-boosts were created to be used more of a hauler or work/rec truck where power still needed at certain times but over longer trips, going up down hills towing....where you needed a V8 power but when not needed got better mpg's. And this isn't a knock against you or trying to belittle you, but like I said before to you, there was a reason those crown Vic's etc lasted forever....simplistic design. A twin turbo that has already a few known flaws prolly just gets exasperated and bought on more quickly when it's constantly on, and throw in stop and go traffic. I have read and heard from cops that I know, the O.P.P that are our rural highway cops have far less issues than city police with the eco boost, city cops have had a ton of issues because their rules state car needs to be running 24/7 while in service......also said that they are in shop 3-4 times more and for longer than the chargers.

 

[Navi]

The vehicle the police seem to use the most around here are...

NJ local police= Ford Police Interceptor Utility (Explorer) with the 3.7 liter Duratec (not Ecoboost, not turbo)
NJ State Police= Chevrolet Tahoe

I do see a sprinkling of Dodge Chargers.

The 3.7 liter Duratec is very reliable, however as for the Ecoboost, I have not had that same luck.

 

[JustinH]

Yes when I worked for a municipality in Texas, our fleet manager would not purchase any turbo cars at all.

The Ford Explorers were duratech for law enforcement, and they also purchased Tahoes.

For the civilian staff it was 2.5L escapes.

 

[Navi]

An update from the dealership. Parts might be in this week and they will replace the turbo and an oil pump. They did say they heard another knock and told me when they open up the engine if they find metal they might have to replace the engine.

At this point I would want them to replace the engine and hopefully get a revised version. However, unless the engine has truly failed and no longer running I doubt Fords warranty department will approve that. We shall see.