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Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: zzyzzx] #5158903 07/12/19 05:50 PM
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Mr Nice Offline
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Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Does anyone not think that interest rates are ridiculously low?

I do. But someone is not happy if rates increase.

I've done OK so far this year.

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: zzyzzx] #5159512 07/13/19 11:49 AM
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Vuflanovsky Offline
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Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Does anyone not think that interest rates are ridiculously low?


It probably depends if you mean in relation to the economy or historical levels. A quarter percent Fed funds rate at the end of 2008 was ridiculous but it was in response to a ridiculous situation. If I can still get between 2% and 2 1/2% on sweep account money and equivalents after the coming rate cut...it won't be ridiculous. If we head down a path toward 0% interest rates that lasts anywhere near as long as the 2008 to 2015 period, it'll be ridiculous.

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Last_Z] #5188445 08/16/19 05:06 AM
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Mr Nice Offline
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GE is in big trouble as their shady and very sketchy accounting practices are being revealed (think Enron).

Short sellers can make some easy $$$ now that the hidden skeletons are found.

GE should be a $3 stock...... and that's being very generous.



Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Last_Z] #5188503 08/16/19 07:23 AM
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Mr Nice Offline
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Read 175 page fraud report online.

After the SEC and DOJ investigations GE will be 25 cents a share....


Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Last_Z] #5188684 08/16/19 11:17 AM
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dishdude Online Content
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Did I read they're calling this GEnron? The GE CEO bought $2 mil in GE stock yesterday fwiw.


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Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Mr Nice] #5189468 08/17/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
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JHZR2 Offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Nice
GE is in big trouble as their shady and very sketchy accounting practices are being revealed (think Enron).

Short sellers can make some easy $$$ now that the hidden skeletons are found.

GE should be a $3 stock...... and that's being very generous.




Says someone who I thought works for GE?

Strange. Yikes!!

The whole thing is unfortunate, and I know they have been shedding business units, but I have doubts that an industrial conglomerate like this, with manufacturing, IP, etc. is truly what you say. Enron was a trading platform as much as anything else, IIRC, and they created limited partnerships to hide losses. The amount of real, tangible production capability and IP was limited if any. GE is different. Think aviation alone...

Fraud and accounting is a big deal none the less.

Originally Posted by dishdude
Did I read they're calling this GEnron? The GE CEO bought $2 mil in GE stock yesterday fwiw.


Big insider buys to attempt to show confidence in the company is a common tactic.

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Last_Z] #5189475 08/17/19 10:35 AM
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Warstud Offline
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[Linked Image]

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Last_Z] #5189489 08/17/19 11:06 AM
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JHZR2 Offline
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Different topic - anyone well-read on the operations of CEFs? Any good resources? What I’ve generally read is pretty generic.

I get it that they raise funds and then release a certain number of shares. And that’s the limit of what they offer unless they make another offering.

I get it that they have a bundle of assets, and the price to NAV can be at premium or discount. I also get that they can use leverage to increase assets and potentially improve payouts (thus generally high yields) in lieu of more cash influx.

I also get that they can pay out either as investment income, or return of capital (thus eroding NAV).

My curiosity is how their management fees relate to their yield and NAV.

Theoretical example. CEF ABC has an NAV of $11 and a price of $10. So it is selling at a discount. It yields 10% and has fees of 1%.

Let’s assume over the year, the NAV and price stay pretty much the same, ie no major market motions. The securities in the CEF pay out whatever they do in interest or equivalent.

Let’s say they’re leveraged, and interest costs are included in the 1% fee.

So roughly in a year, they will yield $1 (10%) and have fees of 10c/share, correct?

Are the fees pulled from investment income (ie they really yield over 10%, earn $1.10, and pull 10c from that)?

Alternately are the fees pulled from capital, requiring either growth in NAV or else an erosion of NAV per year?

In a flat market, with no change to premium/discount, will price drop due to fees, even amongst the dividend payout?

Or does the yield account for the fees, ie the distributed yield is post-fees?

The reason I ask is that CEFs are all over the place. Some might yield a ton, but have fees of 3% or higher. Unlike mutual funds, I don’t see how a CEF can take a management or other fee yearly off the balance in an account - since it’s a traded security. And I don’t think they can “redeem” some fraction of shares to pay it.

So they have to do it internal to the shares, right?

I’d think the yield would be the place, but I also find it hard to believe, even with interest fees and leverage, that so many of these funds can trade at a 2-10% discount, yield 7-11%, and then have a 2-3% fee that would be supported by investment income. That would mean that these CEFs would need to yield in the 10-14% range, which seems dubious to me.

What am I missing with these?




Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: JHZR2] #5189637 08/17/19 02:51 PM
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I stayed away from closed end funds. They are easy to buy but when it comes time to sell that could be a different story. Open end funds and ETFs can be bought and sold easily.


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Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: JHZR2] #5189804 08/17/19 06:22 PM
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Warstud Offline
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JZ....if your looking for a dividend stock with a good yield....Sunoco (SUN) is at 10.84%.

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Warstud] #5189931 08/17/19 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Warstud
JZ....if your looking for a dividend stock with a good yield....Sunoco (SUN) is at 10.84%.


Thanks. Have owned ET for a while.

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: PimTac] #5189932 08/17/19 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
I stayed away from closed end funds. They are easy to buy but when it comes time to sell that could be a different story. Open end funds and ETFs can be bought and sold easily.


I’ve heard that but not observed it. As a long term investor, the ability to buy in at large discounts to NAV is attractive, which I would think may become a good opportunity when the powers that be call a recession and the markets drop.

Re: Investors....come in please! [Re: Warstud] #5207625 09/08/19 10:45 AM
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Warstud Offline
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Originally Posted by Warstud
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

what stocks to buy? #5359313 02/24/20 09:55 PM
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daves66nova Offline
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What stocks are good to buy today or tomorrow, the 25th? I have about 8k


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Re: what stocks to buy? [Re: daves66nova] #5359317 02/24/20 10:06 PM
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Imp4 Offline
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If it were just as easy as asking on a motor oil bulletin board, don't you think others would have figured it out already, bought the best stocks, drove the price up, achieved arbitrage, and gotten out?
Said another way, if anyone actually knows what the best stock are, why would they tell you or anyone else here?
It wouldn't make any sense to do so.

Now brace yourself for all the folks that think they know what the best stock are because they sure are about to tell you.


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