Slow leak caused by corrosion at bead on alloys?

[CapriRacer]

A couple of thoughts:

Aluminum corrosion in the area of a wheel where the tire sits is a problem - and not just because of leaks. The dimensions of that area have to be compatible with the dimensions of the tire in that area. So care must be take NOT to remove metal if it can be avoided. A smooth dip could be as bad as a rough flat.

THEE most critical area is on the flat of the bead - the horizontal area where the safety hump is. The vertical area where the flanges are is NOT as critical.

If I were doing this repair, I would use a fine grit sand paper BY HAND until the area was smooth, but not free of pits. Followed by cleaning the area with something to stop the corrosion (I'm thinking a baking soda solution, rinsed thoroughly with water, but anyone doing this ought to do the research, then let us know.)

Followed by a clear coat, which is allowed to dry for a long time - months, if possible.

And just before having tires mounted, that area should be coated with antifreeze - the green stuff (I'm not sure about the orange stuff - research this, please!).

 

[CNT]

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Aluminum corrosion in the area of a wheel where the tire sits is a problem - and not just because of leaks. The dimensions of that area have to be compatible with the dimensions of the tire in that area. So care must be take NOT to remove metal if it can be avoided. A smooth dip could be as bad as a rough flat.

OK, Good to know.

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THEE most critical area is on the flat of the bead - the horizontal area where the safety hump is. The vertical area where the flanges are is NOT as critical.

Not clear on that, perhaps a photo/diagram would be helpful?

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If I were doing this repair, I would use a fine grit sand paper BY HAND until the area was smooth, but not free of pits. Followed by cleaning the area with something to stop the corrosion (I'm thinking a baking soda solution, rinsed thoroughly with water, but anyone doing this ought to do the research, then let us know.)

No help suggestive remedy? I wouldn't use sandpaper, especially by hand, I don't want blisters. Sandpapers would be too rough, wouldn't it?

I just bought poly abrasive wheels (to use with cordless drill). I just put the rims in the basement to warm it up little, then will see how these would work?

I was hoping of something to eat out those rubber and corrosion? I also need to clean the brake dust that are caked on inside the rims too.

Example, if there's acid on car battery plate (after removing the battery), use baking soda with warm water, then rinse with hot water. It won't make the surface smooth down to shining paint, but it's a step to do (basically that's all, as this is example of acid on battery plate).

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Followed by a clear coat, which is allowed to dry for a long time - months, if possible.

OK, and/or bead sealer, but then it's gonna make it worst later when trying to replace tires (if that comes to it). To me, if it's clean, then it should be OK to leave it as is. Actually, bead sealer would be good as it would resist moisture (it's the locked moisture that causes the corrosion).

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And just before having tires mounted, that area should be coated with antifreeze - the green stuff (I'm not sure about the orange stuff - research this, please!).

Yeah, please any one research on this? Not by me though

 

[Traction]

After personally dealing with thousands corroded wheels for 18 years, and living in Iowa, I could start a new thread on just that subject alone. But basically I just take them outside, put them face down on a stack of 3 tires. Then using a coarse wire wheel on a cordless 4 1/2in angle grinder, I walk around the wheel and buff it clean in like 30 seconds. Then I flip and repeat the other side. With new tires, it works every time using no sealer. New wheels and tires never come from the factory with that goo slobbered all over everything, like most tire shops do. Even on new cars, because it is SOP.

 

[CNT]

Originally Posted by Traction
After personally dealing with thousands corroded wheels for 18 years, and living in Iowa, I could start a new thread on just that subject alone. But basically I just take them outside, put them face down on a stack of 3 tires. Then using a coarse wire wheel on a cordless 4 1/2in angle grinder, I walk around the wheel and buff it clean in like 30 seconds. Then I flip and repeat the other side. With new tires, it works every time using no sealer. New wheels and tires never come from the factory with that goo slobbered all over everything, like most tire shops do. Even on new cars, because it is SOP.

That's for aluminum rims?

 

[wdn]

You were doing OK until the part about antifreeze on tires. It attacks the rubber.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=262

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by wdn
You were doing OK until the part about antifreeze on tires. It attacks the rubber.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=262


I just did some quick research on antifreeze and there are kinds of antifreeze that do attack rubber, but there are kinds that don't - which is why I specifically mentioned the green stuff and not the orange stuff.

That's why Tire Rack has that blanket statement. It's not that it is incorrect, it just doesn't go far enough into the detail; to sort out all the possibilities.

 

[Black_Thunder]

Originally Posted by CNT
Originally Posted by Traction
After personally dealing with thousands corroded wheels for 18 years, and living in Iowa, I could start a new thread on just that subject alone. But basically I just take them outside, put them face down on a stack of 3 tires. Then using a coarse wire wheel on a cordless 4 1/2in angle grinder, I walk around the wheel and buff it clean in like 30 seconds. Then I flip and repeat the other side. With new tires, it works every time using no sealer. New wheels and tires never come from the factory with that goo slobbered all over everything, like most tire shops do. Even on new cars, because it is SOP.

That's for aluminum rims?



Indeed that's how the tire shops do it on both aluminum and steel rims alike. Sometimes certain tire lubes can be used to help minimize corrosion

 

[mattd]

Originally Posted by Traction
After personally dealing with thousands corroded wheels for 18 years, and living in Iowa, I could start a new thread on just that subject alone. But basically I just take them outside, put them face down on a stack of 3 tires. Then using a coarse wire wheel on a cordless 4 1/2in angle grinder, I walk around the wheel and buff it clean in like 30 seconds. Then I flip and repeat the other side. With new tires, it works every time using no sealer. New wheels and tires never come from the factory with that goo slobbered all over everything, like most tire shops do. Even on new cars, because it is SOP.


This is the best method and most time effective. I have done this for a long time.

 

[CNT]

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Aluminum wheels should NEVER be wire brushed.

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Then using a coarse wire wheel on a cordless 4 1/2in angle grinder

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And just before having tires mounted, that area should be coated with antifreeze - the green stuff

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… and the "internet"


Maybe I was trying too hard to "listen" for advices, but again, as the original saying goes, "don't believe everything you read on internet".

As I started with one side with poly wheel, it took me too long (~20 minutes one side), I dropped it and went to store and buy 4" wire wheel. That was much better. Yet, took me about 2 hours to do all 4 rims. Then next day, wash 'em with dish soap and brush.

I think I did good enough not to go too deep, there may be some stuff left. Should be OK?

One rim was stuffed with that "stop leak can" that pours through the valve stem, got it all over the rim, cleaned as much, I am done with that one!

OK, now, ready to put on the new tires. Questions... what are those red (and other colors) circles mean? To follow the stem hole?

What are the green lines on the tire mean? To install facing inside or outside?

Do I take the barcode sticker off or leave 'em alone?

Lastly, I am going to think about whether or not to use bead sealer.

 

[Traction]

Looks good to go, but I wouldn't use bead sealer. About the only thing that may help for long term would be to apply epoxy primer to the areas that corrode, otherwise they will be good for quite awhile, and forever if not driven in salt. You could line up the yellow dots with the valve stem, but I've found it doesn't make any difference most of the time, and sometimes I've had to put them opposite of the valve stem if I need to get less wheel weight on them. The second barcode should be removed, or sometimes that is the only part I will put bead sealer on. Like I mentioned earlier new cars don't come with bead sealer slobbered all over, and I have seen some shops put so much on that it actually made them leak worse. The only time I feel the need to use sealer is after cleaning up everything and putting the used tires back on when fixing bead leaks because the beads are not smooth and as pliable after having corrosion stuck all over them. The best thing I've found for cleaning the beads of the tires are the plastic brushes on a drill, and wire wheel on a grinder for the wheel. If you do use bead sealer it is supposed to be applied to only rubber, not the wheel.

 

[CNT]

OK, you said "second barcode", just the one that's half peeled or all tires should have the barcode removed? The barcodes are well glued onto the beads, so I might have to carefully razor it off?

In your signature, you got/had 02 Camry... I just bought a 03 Camry few days ago for my daughter (21 years old). She is a college junior and just got a internship job in IL. Nice car, loaded (including heated seats), V6 90K, and the Pirelli P4 tires are pretty good (yet needs rotation right away).

 

[CNT]

Another question... regarding red and yellow dots on the tires. I got all 4 same brand/size tires. Some have both red and yellow circles, and some have only red circle. Is that normal? Shouldn't all have yellow circles? If there's a yellow circle (with red circle or not), that should line up with the stem, correct? If there's no yellow circle, then next would be red circle line up with the stem? Why would there be both on a same tire? And the circles would be the tire facing out, regardless the green lines on the outer tire?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by CNT
Another question... regarding red and yellow dots on the tires. I got all 4 same brand/size tires. Some have both red and yellow circles, and some have only red circle. Is that normal? Shouldn't all have yellow circles? If there's a yellow circle (with red circle or not), that should line up with the stem, correct? If there's no yellow circle, then next would be red circle line up with the stem? Why would there be both on a same tire? And the circles would be the tire facing out, regardless the green lines on the outer tire?


First, not every tire manufacturer marks tires for balance and/or uniformity - and even those that do, don't always follow the red dot/yellow dot convention (the red dot being the high point of the 1st harmonic of uniformity, the yellow dot being the balance low point.) I can't emphasize this enough - THERE IS LITTLE COMMONALITY! Tire manufacturers don't always do this.

Also, wheels are generally NOT marked - even by the valve hole. Sometimes it is a metal dent on the face of the flange.

Having said that, you want to line up the red dot with the valve hole. While it probably isn't doing anything, there is no harm. If both the wheel and the tire are marked (not anyways close to being true all the time), that is supposed to reduce the Uniformity of the tire and wheel assembly (Think roundness and you'll be close) - not balance! Not matter how you slice it, the balance is the balance and minimizing the amount of weight required only minimizes the weight - it doesn't improve the balance.

 

[jjjxlr8]

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted by jjjxlr8

Well I can tell you these wheels were making bubbles all the way around the tire. I have also run across many bead leaks right at the barcode of some tires even on steels wheels. Cooper is the biggest offender since they just slap them on wherever sticking up above the flange on the outside were it can be seen, or even angled across the sealing area. And for quite awhile now they even put 2 stickers on. I have also seen many bead leaks from clip-on wheel weights too. I've also noticed, almost all wheels will corrode on the rear flange that never gets washed off, and no corrosion on the outer flange, which was the case on the wheel pictured.

 

[CNT]

I see... the arrow spot is the sealing surface. I thought it was more to the corner where the sealing surface and rim flange meets. So, still will attempt to remove the barcode, just because. Thanks for the picture and drawings.

 

[Traction]

Here is a picture of a typical bead leak on a wheel a couple minutes after spraying a little soapy water on. I think it was a chrome plated wheel, and also the first picture I posted, which are nearly impossible to fix, and should be replaced. I have found out though, the best way you can seal around all of the pealing chrome is to use Pematex High tack gasket sealant, which is like a reddish contact cement, and not RMA approved. Chrome wheels should be outlawed in the northern climates! Bead leaks are a safety hazard. That's why some OEM's went with the STUPID plastic chrome clad wheels, which are a total farce. I have seen many chrome wheels that were pealing so bad there was no place left to put a stick-on wheel weight on.

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted by Traction
Here is a picture of a typical bead leak on a wheel a couple minutes after spraying a little soapy water on. I think it was a chrome plated wheel, and also the first picture I posted, which are nearly impossible to fix, and should be replaced. I have found out though, the best way you can seal around all of the pealing chrome is to use Pematex High tack gasket sealant, which is like a reddish contact cement, and not RMA approved. Chrome wheels should be outlawed in the northern climates! Bead leaks are a safety hazard. That's why some OEM's went with the STUPID plastic chrome clad wheels, which are a total farce. I have seen many chrome wheels that were pealing so bad there was no place left to put a stick-on wheel weight on.

So much for spell check. I meant chrome peeling. Pealing is apparently like a bell ringing, which is new to me.

 

[jjjxlr8]

Originally Posted by Traction
Originally Posted by jjjxlr8

Well I can tell you these wheels were making bubbles all the way around the tire. I have also run across many bead leaks right at the barcode of some tires even on steels wheels. Cooper is the biggest offender since they just slap them on wherever sticking up above the flange on the outside were it can be seen, or even angled across the sealing area. And for quite awhile now they even put 2 stickers on. I have also seen many bead leaks from clip-on wheel weights too. I've also noticed, almost all wheels will corrode on the rear flange that never gets washed off, and no corrosion on the outer flange, which was the case on the wheel pictured.


Yes, because the primary sealing area on the flat portion of the rim is leaking. That pressurized air goes up around the heal of the bead area and the finds it's way to the path of least resistance - at the bar code or any other badly corroded rim path - out to atmosphere.

Here we go again...

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...y-barcode-stickers-on-the-tire-bead-seat

The tire, while pressed up against the vertical part of the rim flange fits tightly and can create a seal, but there won't be any air at that location unless the primary sealing surface is compromised somehow. That primary surface is the slightly angle part of the tire right below the bead. This is the area that sits in the flat part of the rim image above. Hopefully that makes sense.

Here's a picture of a tire that has suffered some mounting damage to the toe. Damage in this area can cause leaks. The leak will make it's way out along the flange and may end up at the bar code or clip on weight, or other areas of corrosion in the rim flange.

 

[CNT]

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https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...y-barcode-stickers-on-the-tire-bead-seat

I read the page 2 of this link... I am still wondering why manufactures STILL put barcode in there!? If at all, if they have to put in somewhere (and glue it so well), put it IN the tire! Aren't the barcode the same as the big, long stickers that's on the 1/4 thread side? Are those barcode for manufacture to check on warranties or something? Anyhow, I will attempt to peel those off (and any future tires if I can get my hands on 'em before installations).

This has been a worthwhile thread for me! Barcodes, red dots, where seals are actually are, etc... even locations (where salts are dumped)!