List of PAO Grp IV oils
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Redline and VPBR both use high levels of Grps. 4&5
Triple_Se7en
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Originally Posted by Olas
Redline and VPBR both use high levels of Grps. 4&5
I have no idea what VPBR is. But Redline offers many flavors these days and not all of them are 4&5s. I thought member Overkill stated the Dexos flavor of Redline (GT-1) was a mirror of Kendall Oil's Dexos offering. So that particular Redline jug may not have one ounce of 4&5. So some of the other flavors might have little or none also.
Redline and VPBR both use high levels of Grps. 4&5
I have no idea what VPBR is. But Redline offers many flavors these days and not all of them are 4&5s. I thought member Overkill stated the Dexos flavor of Redline (GT-1) was a mirror of Kendall Oil's Dexos offering. So that particular Redline jug may not have one ounce of 4&5. So some of the other flavors might have little or none also.
WOW! didnt notice the date, I just saw a discussion that interested me.
Is it possble to lock a thread automatically, say after 24months of inactivity?
Is it possble to lock a thread automatically, say after 24months of inactivity?
Here's a thought. How about the original date posted be moved over to the left, nearer the thread title, that way it would be easier to see. I've been caught in this predicament before!
(Oh wait, that sounds like that commercial on TV!)
Anyway, more PAO's today than in 2006.
Ravenol FDS as well as other versions, and yes certainly not 100% due to the carrier oils for additives.
(Oh wait, that sounds like that commercial on TV!)
Anyway, more PAO's today than in 2006.
Ravenol FDS as well as other versions, and yes certainly not 100% due to the carrier oils for additives.
4WD
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This tired old thread is made even more murky in 2020 where we have GII/GIII semi's on the shelf sold as synthetic
Funny there is always an endless bashing of the companies who make the worshiped companies possible.
"Synthetic" ??? All they need to meet is a VI range ? What other benchmark is there ?
Big goal here and now is to meet Dexos 1.2 with as much GII as possible …
Not saying that's a bad thing, but tie up the high horses already
Funny there is always an endless bashing of the companies who make the worshiped companies possible.
"Synthetic" ??? All they need to meet is a VI range ? What other benchmark is there ?
Big goal here and now is to meet Dexos 1.2 with as much GII as possible …
Not saying that's a bad thing, but tie up the high horses already
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
What about volatility Noack, less vi improvers and better long drain capability, that's where pao also does better.
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
What about volatility Noack, less vi improvers and better long drain capability, that's where pao also does better.
4WD
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Sure … strong on oxidation resistance - found in extended run and industrial lubricants
*How to best explain Pennzoil Ultimate Platinum (PUP) ?... "We make a very good Group III+ oil made from natural gas " ? You would think PUP would has some PAO and Esters included but the newest version (SN+) probably doesn't have either .
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
The original pre Shell version did … but they got it from CVX
Originally Posted by KieferS
I'll tell you a few
Redline
Royal Purple
German Castrol
Amsoil
You can add all M1 oils to that list. But remember none of the oils you listed are al grp4 oils. They are a blend of various base stocks for a better lubricant than 4 alone.
I'll tell you a few
Redline
Royal Purple
German Castrol
Amsoil
You can add all M1 oils to that list. But remember none of the oils you listed are al grp4 oils. They are a blend of various base stocks for a better lubricant than 4 alone.
Originally Posted by madeej11
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
What about volatility Noack, less vi improvers and better long drain capability, that's where pao also does better.
Group III oils can achieve NOACKs of 7% or better. How many people are actually going 25k mile intervals? VII isn't much different until you get into oils like 0w-40 and 5w-50. I'm personally not willing to sacrifice additive response for longer drains. An ideal high performance synthetic oil will be a blend of groups III, IV, and V with group III having the largest share.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
What about volatility Noack, less vi improvers and better long drain capability, that's where pao also does better.
Group III oils can achieve NOACKs of 7% or better. How many people are actually going 25k mile intervals? VII isn't much different until you get into oils like 0w-40 and 5w-50. I'm personally not willing to sacrifice additive response for longer drains. An ideal high performance synthetic oil will be a blend of groups III, IV, and V with group III having the largest share.
Originally Posted by 4WD
The original pre Shell version did … but they got it from CVX
The old Performax? When that was introduced in the early '90s, I'm pretty sure Pennzoil still owned a piece of Chevron. So, it makes sense.
I was told management didn't want to have a synthetic, but Jiffy Lube franchisees were forcing it on them.
They banded together, and were threatening to break lube agreements that Pennzoil guaranteed to be competitive with all products offered. The argument was how could they be competitive if they offered no synthetic?
The original pre Shell version did … but they got it from CVX
The old Performax? When that was introduced in the early '90s, I'm pretty sure Pennzoil still owned a piece of Chevron. So, it makes sense.
I was told management didn't want to have a synthetic, but Jiffy Lube franchisees were forcing it on them.
They banded together, and were threatening to break lube agreements that Pennzoil guaranteed to be competitive with all products offered. The argument was how could they be competitive if they offered no synthetic?
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Think this is the one before the Shell GTL plant changed the formula … and Ultra was the better version
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by madeej11
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
What about volatility Noack, less vi improvers and better long drain capability, that's where pao also does better.
Group III oils can achieve NOACKs of 7% or better. How many people are actually going 25k mile intervals? VII isn't much different until you get into oils like 0w-40 and 5w-50. I'm personally not willing to sacrifice additive response for longer drains. An ideal high performance synthetic oil will be a blend of groups III, IV, and V with group III having the largest share.
0w40 is popular so yeah we are getting into them. Also, using 25k as a long drain example is stretching it. I'd consider anything over 10k as getting into long drains for a PCMO. Not many group III oils are at 7% noack.
Originally Posted by madeej11
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The thread is archaic for sure, but still a good topic that's largely still debated today.
With the move to group III base oils has come more advancement in group III base oils. What I've learned in this regard is that group IV PAO doesn't hold any appreciable advantage over group III outside of cold start performance. If you need a 0w-20 that can start easily in -40*F temps then it's a good way to go. Outside of that, group III base oils are actually preferable to group IV PAO due to better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response. Even your higher end racing oils, where cost usually isn't a concern, have gone majority group III now for that reason, using smaller amounts of trimer PAO or mPAO and POE to get a higher flashpoint.
What about volatility Noack, less vi improvers and better long drain capability, that's where pao also does better.
Group III oils can achieve NOACKs of 7% or better. How many people are actually going 25k mile intervals? VII isn't much different until you get into oils like 0w-40 and 5w-50. I'm personally not willing to sacrifice additive response for longer drains. An ideal high performance synthetic oil will be a blend of groups III, IV, and V with group III having the largest share.
0w40 is popular so yeah we are getting into them. Also, using 25k as a long drain example is stretching it. I'd consider anything over 10k as getting into long drains for a PCMO. Not many group III oils are at 7% noack.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Think this is the one before the Shell GTL plant changed the formula … and Ultra was the better version
This is the one to which I was referring. A couple of versions earlier than the one you posted. 5W-50 only at the time. If I'm reading the date code properly, this was packaged in 1994.
Think this is the one before the Shell GTL plant changed the formula … and Ultra was the better version
This is the one to which I was referring. A couple of versions earlier than the one you posted. 5W-50 only at the time. If I'm reading the date code properly, this was packaged in 1994.
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