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Tesla Disrupts German Economy #5358548 02/24/20 02:53 AM
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Y_K Offline OP
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Some far-fetched claims in the article, but the trend is undoubtedly there... And Germans have nothing that can compete with Tesla.

https://www.ccn.com/tesla-is-slowly-pushing-germany-into-recession/


Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358562 02/24/20 03:34 AM
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Olas Offline
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Your view is different - a Merc/BMW/VW/Audi built in NA is typically a low quality item with poor fit and finish, which the majority of the market place seem to be happy to buy and live with.

The same car built in Germany is a well designed, well executed high quality item with exceptional attention to detail, and segment leading fit&finish.

Tesla are better than NA built Euro cars. Euro built Euro cars are significantly better than Tesla - you only have to look at the orange peel and panel gaps on any new Tesla to see how poorly they are built.

Being all that distance away distorts your view

Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358612 02/24/20 06:25 AM
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Astro14 Offline
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Ah, well, let’s see....

Looks like a bunch of conspiracy nonsense and sensational headlines from the cryptocurrency news folks.

Check out the CCN homepage.

Sheesh...


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Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Astro14] #5358617 02/24/20 06:29 AM
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Rmay635703 Offline
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Originally Posted by Astro14
Ah, well, let’s see....

Looks like a bunch of conspiracy nonsense and sensational headlines from the cryptocurrency news folks.

Check out the CCN homepage.

Sheesh...


Hmm. Should read

TESLA gets free advertising due to clickbate and nut jobs with a far fetched financial agenda

Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358635 02/24/20 07:16 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by Y_K
Some far-fetched claims in the article, but the trend is undoubtedly there... And Germans have nothing that can compete with Tesla.

https://www.ccn.com/tesla-is-slowly-pushing-germany-into-recession/



The trend is largely being driving by public policy decisions. If one considers the entire supply chain involved in ICE it's fairly obviously how the phase out/demand reduction of the ICE will impact suppliers of specific components. It's not a question of whether CEO's do a better job it's just a matter of being able to re-purpose excess labor capacity.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 02/24/20 07:26 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Olas] #5358641 02/24/20 07:29 AM
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Cujet Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
Your view is different - a Merc/BMW/VW/Audi built in NA is typically a low quality item with poor fit and finish, which the majority of the market place seem to be happy to buy and live with.

The same car built in Germany is a well designed, well executed high quality item with exceptional attention to detail, and segment leading fit&finish.

Tesla are better than NA built Euro cars. Euro built Euro cars are significantly better than Tesla - you only have to look at the orange peel and panel gaps on any new Tesla to see how poorly they are built.

Being all that distance away distorts your view


Nonsense. I work for one of the worlds most wealthy individuals and as you would expect we have a large fleet of imported German cars/suv's. While they are exceedingly nice, I dispute your claim. I'm on a first name basis with the Mercedes service coordinator, and I work in the flight department, not fleet management. They are utterly unreliable, overly complex and subject to all sorts of unusual failures. Just yesterday the Mer 550 put itself into park while I was driving. That was uncomfortable and embarrassing.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Olas] #5358646 02/24/20 07:41 AM
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pbm Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
Your view is different - a Merc/BMW/VW/Audi built in NA is typically a low quality item with poor fit and finish, which the majority of the market place seem to be happy to buy and live with.

The same car built in Germany is a well designed, well executed high quality item with exceptional attention to detail, and segment leading fit&finish.

Tesla are better than NA built Euro cars. Euro built Euro cars are significantly better than Tesla - you only have to look at the orange peel and panel gaps on any new Tesla to see how poorly they are built.

Being all that distance away distorts your view

What are your thoughts on British built cars?


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Olas] #5358660 02/24/20 08:09 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
Your view is different - a Merc/BMW/VW/Audi built in NA is typically a low quality item with poor fit and finish, which the majority of the market place seem to be happy to buy and live with.

The same car built in Germany is a well designed, well executed high quality item with exceptional attention to detail, and segment leading fit&finish.

Tesla are better than NA built Euro cars. Euro built Euro cars are significantly better than Tesla - you only have to look at the orange peel and panel gaps on any new Tesla to see how poorly they are built.

Being all that distance away distorts your view


Disgree here.

I've owned 4 BMW's over the past 15 or so years and every one was German built and every one had orange peel. Also every one had some weird issue which was inherent with that particular model.

In any case fit-n-finish isn't indicative of durability. For example, aside from the peeling plastic film on the door handles/gear selector, I don't think anyone would disagree with the fit-n-finish of the E90 M3 of the E60 M5 but clearly it has nothing to do with why those engines chew through their bearings.

OR

How about the well known timing chain problems for the BMW 320d (Engine Cod N47)? It took BMW UK years to own up to that fiasco. BMWNA has extended the warranty on this to 7 yrs/70k miles.

In the US Mercedes Benz just agreed to a massive recall over a mold issue with regards to the climate control system.

The thing is that in the US these vehicles are priced as luxury cars along with their luxury car labor rates (although that gap has been closing). People expect similar components found in less priced vehicles to be as durable, not less durable (ex, rear cameras, engine related gaskets).

The Germans do excel at rust prevention.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358668 02/24/20 08:20 AM
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HemiHawk Offline
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I have no idea if what that title claims is true but... I was just in Germany for 2 weeks and there are far more Teslas there than I would have imagined. They also seem to really be embracing electric vehicles with charging stations all over. Motorway rest stops had many charging stations. Windmills are also a pretty common site there, just pulled this fact from wiki

Quote
By 2018, onshore wind power installed capacity reached over 88 GW, which allows Germany to power about a fifth of the country from wind.


but yea, no sure if they're "disrupting" other car sales. plenty of new Auid's/VWs/BMWs/Mercs on the road there too.


2015 Mustang GT
2017 VW GTI sport
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1995 Mustang GTS
Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358732 02/24/20 09:42 AM
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ragtoplvr Online Content
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Everyone I know with a Mercedes Audi or BMW says when the warranty expires get another one with warranty. You still make the same payment, just to the shop. But you are driving an older one. So why? I know a good mechanic who loves fixing things, he buys older BMW and uses the enthusiast forums on the internet to maintain. He comes out good on the used ones. Edit Not counting his time spent fixing them end edit

Rod

Last edited by ragtoplvr; 02/24/20 09:56 AM.
Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358736 02/24/20 09:46 AM
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Farnsworth Offline
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I just watched Motorweek's test on the Porsche Taycan. On PBS. Quite a vehicle. Nothing against Tesla but they are competing with companies with more depth than they have. I hope they make it but it isn't going to be a given.

Their Taycan did 10.9 secs at 129 mph in the 1/4 mile.

Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Olas] #5358796 02/24/20 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Olas
Your view is different - a Merc/BMW/VW/Audi built in NA is typically a low quality item with poor fit and finish, which the majority of the market place seem to be happy to buy and live with.

The same car built in Germany is a well designed, well executed high quality item with exceptional attention to detail, and segment leading fit&finish.

Tesla are better than NA built Euro cars. Euro built Euro cars are significantly better than Tesla - you only have to look at the orange peel and panel gaps on any new Tesla to see how poorly they are built.

Being all that distance away distorts your view

Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Y_K] #5358799 02/24/20 11:02 AM
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BMW, Lexus and Mercedes Benz are scared; they know they are far behind the technology leader.
The market speaks in terms of sales.

I spent some time at Putnam Lexus in Redwood City (Silicon Valley), CA 2 Fridays ago; our RX was in for a recall to replace the oil cooler pipe.
I bought 3 cars there; 2 RX450h and my GS.
I deal with the Internet sales manager. I asked him about the future of the GS, which is in doubt.
He said they did not think there would be a 2020, but then they got brochures and then cars.

He did say that what has hurt all dealers is Tesla; they are taking sales from everyone in Silicon Valley.
Especially BMW and even Lexus.
The Model 3 was the number 3 selling car in CA last year after the Camry and Civic; at least twice the price!

Lexus fully expects the upcoming Model Y to take market share from the RX which is their number 1 seller.
Yes, Tesla is a major industry disrupter; BMW, Lexus and Mercedes Benz are scared.

The point he was making was, they have some serious catching up to do.
People are buying tech. That means Tesla.


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2018 Lexus RX450h
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Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: JeffKeryk] #5358807 02/24/20 11:16 AM
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Pew Online Content
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

He did say that what has hurt all dealers is Tesla; they are taking sales from everyone in Silicon Valley.
Especially BMW and even Lexus.
The Model 3 was the number 3 selling car in CA last year after the Camry and Civic; at least twice the price!


According to Edmunds, Cali is the only state where Tesla is on the top 5.

Re: Tesla Disrupts German Economy [Re: Pew] #5358817 02/24/20 11:29 AM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

He did say that what has hurt all dealers is Tesla; they are taking sales from everyone in Silicon Valley.
Especially BMW and even Lexus.
The Model 3 was the number 3 selling car in CA last year after the Camry and Civic; at least twice the price!


According to Edmunds, Cali is the only state where Tesla is on the top 5.

How many BMWs are in the top 5?
CA is by far the biggest car market in the US. Silicon Valley is probably the #1 market for luxury vehicles in the world.
By the way, I call Model 3s the new Corolla around here.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
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