ZDDP Content

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
"Absolutely no reason"? You really should talk to people that have been preserving these vehicles for decades for future generations to enjoy. Many antique car collectors do not want modern oils with their additives/dispersants/detergents in their engines. If you can produce Blackstone lab reports (or others) from these ancient engines to show less wear with modern oils, I am 100 percent open to passing that information on.

Yes, absolutely no reason. There is no reason this engine needs highly elevated zinc levels.

Oh, and Blackstone Labs UOA would show nothing about comparative wear and would be useless for that information.


So we're going on your opinion then. Ok.
 
Not at all. As has already been mentioned in this thread, the valve spring pressure is nothing out of the ordinary for this engine.

And UOA are not proper tools for comparative wear determination between oils. The analysis companies (like Blackstone) will also tell you that, in fact Blackstone will tell you that there is no statistically significant difference they can determine between any of the oils they have tested. Are you going to lay some new science on us?
 
Just about any Group I or II monograde in your desired viscosity would be appropriate. It would be interesting to know how much zinc/phosphorous was in those early oils. I bet they had a high sulfur content and the oils were just basically straight strained crude tapped at the appropriate column height for viscosity.
 
ZDDP didn't come on the scene until the 1930s and its anti-wear benefits weren't realized until the 1940s. It was first used as an anti-oxidant.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Not at all. As has already been mentioned in this thread, the valve spring pressure is nothing out of the ordinary for this engine.

And UOA are not proper tools for comparative wear determination between oils. The analysis companies (like Blackstone) will also tell you that, in fact Blackstone will tell you that there is no statistically significant difference they can determine between any of the oils they have tested. Are you going to lay some new science on us?


If what you say is truly the case, then you'll have links/source material to read. I would appreciate those sources.
 
Ah, the internet world ...


Modern Oil has no zinc; I need zinc for my 2v 351M n my Country Squire! Yeah, yeah YEAH!

BOSE makes the best headphones ! Yeah Yeah yeah!

Chic-fil-A sandwiches are better than my Mammies! Ohhh Yeah!

Grupo Modelo Corona Extra is awesome Beer! Don't drink the water in Mexico though! Burrp!


Watch out for that dizzying 2500 rpm redline in that "A"

__________________________________________

API SB from the period allowed ~0.10% ZddP

So Get some 30ND from Autozone in the orange bottle and add your ZDP - UP of choice.

_________________________________________

Maybe give Valvoline a call, I bet they would be responsive.

I recall Jay Leno or somebody did an interview with an Ashland rep about a decade ago ....
 
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You really need to read some of the VOA reports on this very forum. There are many modern name-brand oils that have some Zinc. Educate yourself and leave the comedy to the professionals because you're not very good at it.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
STP Oil Treatment contains less ZDDP than modern API SN/SN+ oils so it will actually dilute the content, not add to it.

Also keep in mind that you can add too much ZDDP and actually increase wear due to toxicity. Another side effect of ZDDP is that it increases the coefficient of friction the higher the concentration. I like to see the least amount of ZDDP that'll get the job done for a particular application.

I also recommend using an oil that already contains the additive package that you need instead of using an aftermarket supplement with an unknown type of ZDDP. Additive clash from opposing chemistry can be a problem, especially with anti-foaming additives.


This. Using a dedicated classic car or Hot Rod oil like AMSOIL's Z-ROD 10w-30 is probably a pretty safe bet, though as kschachn has indicated, there really is no requirement for elevated ZDDP levels in this application. I have a significant amount of experience with antique and classic engines, albeit almost exclusively in boats. None of those engines were picky about what went in the pan due to their low specific output and relatively low RPM operating range. We typically ran whatever we got on sale in a 10w-30, which was either Valvoline or Castrol GTX. For the engines that had not been opened and cleaned up, we had a non-detergent SAE30 from the same brand stockpiled.

Higher levels of ZDDP may be desirable for engines that have been modified with heavier springs and more aggressive camshaft spec's, but for an already broken-in mill with a stock camshaft and weak springs, the requirements are far from lofty. Anything available today is going to be better than what was available back then, so keep that in mind. If you are concerned about materials compatibility, I'd give AMSOIL, Redline or one of the other majors a call and ask them, they should be able to advise you accordingly.
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
And with that you just lost all credibility. Some of these old cars are more than likely worth more than your home. People aren't going to start running modern oils with very little Zinc based on an internet expert. Game. Set. Match.

Lol PowerSurge. You keep on striving for relevancy, okay?
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You really need to read some of the VOA reports on this very forum. There are many modern name-brand oils that have some Zinc. Educate yourself and leave the comedy to the professionals because you're not very good at it.
smile.gif



Right over your head, buddy.

Did you see the last line where i gave you a SOLID professional recommendation with background historical info?

Lets talk about that instead of tossing insults.
 
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You really need to read some of the VOA reports on this very forum. There are many modern name-brand oils that have some Zinc. Educate yourself and leave the comedy to the professionals because you're not very good at it.
smile.gif


Sorry I thought you were the O.P given your thread presence.
Motorcycle oils like 4T or ATV include plenty (>0.1%) of ZDDP for most moderate - high output engines.

I think where caution is due is what materials used in the engines from the 1920's > 30's
- if still employed after a modern refreshening - cannot tolerate some modern Additives or detergents.

I would imagine following API SA witch may also include some minor % of calcite overbased detergents would be proper and do no harm.
 
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
And with that you just lost all credibility. Some of these old cars are more than likely worth more than your home. People aren't going to start running modern oils with very little Zinc based on an internet expert. Game. Set. Match.

Lol PowerSurge. You keep on striving for relevancy, okay?


You go and try to have yourself a nice day.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by Dennisfly
I have a Ford Model A with a 90 year old re-manufactured engine that has a low pressure oil system, flat tappets, and babbitt bearings. I want to add Zinc and Phosphorus.
I'm looking at three possibilities - ZDDPplus (about $10) , Riselone 3X Engine Oil Supplement (about $5), or STP Engine Oil Treatment(about $3). All three claim to contain ZDDP.

Where can I find out how much each contains and how much do I want in a five quart crankcase?



You don't need to add any extra ZDDP with that low compression, lightly loaded valvetrain engine as others have mentioned.

How much ZDDP was in the oils of that era? Hardly any. Get a mineral oil based 40 grade engine oil but don't be adding in any extra ZDDP since it isn't needed.
 
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Originally Posted by 762fermeandyou
Tractor Supply 30 ND $9.99/5 qt.


If this is an API SA oil don't use it in any engine as it has only an antifoam additive and no AW additives.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
From what I've read, with API SB came ~1000ppm ZddP





Actually, the SB oils had about 650 to 750 ppm of Phos and zinc, very similar to today's SN oils.
 
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i had a model A when i was a teen ager. my idea is the stress on that engine is NOT high. I.E low RPM, low compresstion ,
 
Lucas TB zinc plus 10063 is a cheap and has 43,000 ppm. I've been adding 2 tablespoons I have low wear numbers nut not sure if it is related. Worth noting you can get worse wear if you add to much zddp.
 
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