Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion
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Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
You may as well open the window and throw the money out into the wind, same effect. Lighter wallet nothing more.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Okay but lets say for the sake of argument that its doesn't fall out of suspension (I have seen different in oil pans and a mod here did extensive testing and found it did also), what exactly are you gaining with this stuff?
When it was popular many decades ago we had oils that were not very good at doing anything except keeping the engine alive for possibly 100K max and had no real AW additives, it was pretty much a done deal for the engine at that point.
The stuff helped a little but nothing significant. In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless, brings nothing of benefit, any effects at all are short lived and temporary.
When it was popular many decades ago we had oils that were not very good at doing anything except keeping the engine alive for possibly 100K max and had no real AW additives, it was pretty much a done deal for the engine at that point.
The stuff helped a little but nothing significant. In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless, brings nothing of benefit, any effects at all are short lived and temporary.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
I only use a half-bottle 6.5oz, so significant results aren't being sought by me. If I knew someone here would rebuke the product, I would have poured the entire bottle into the engine for better / more thorough testing.
I will be trying Lubegard Biotech next..... at another half-dose. I have two new'ish vehicles. So I'm not looking to repair anything.
I will be trying Lubegard Biotech next..... at another half-dose. I have two new'ish vehicles. So I'm not looking to repair anything.
No offense intended, its your car and your money but I just wonder what do people expect when using these additives?
I have been maintaining a VW for someone for the last 10 years and it has 260K on the 2.0 slow, all it ever had since new was VW spec 502 and zero additives since new. The engine still has decent compression and doesn't use any measurable amount of oil between 5K OCI.
The ravages of rust is taking its toll so the car will probably go to the yard with its original engine still running fine.
I have been maintaining a VW for someone for the last 10 years and it has 260K on the 2.0 slow, all it ever had since new was VW spec 502 and zero additives since new. The engine still has decent compression and doesn't use any measurable amount of oil between 5K OCI.
The ravages of rust is taking its toll so the car will probably go to the yard with its original engine still running fine.
I had used the Ceratec before I discovered Archoil and Ceratec never had any issues. If you drive every day and all that you won't have a worry. It might also be mineral based also. If you want solid lubrication then use Archoil which uses a ester base and would take way longer if ever to fall out of suspension.
Again, what is the point adding something to the oil that has been formulated to meet the manufacturers and standards requirements? Is it that it does no harm so it must be doing some good?
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Maybe the car has to sit for 2 weeks or longer for it to start to settle? several bottles over the years, never see anything settled in the sump. differnet formulations?
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Maybe the car has to sit for 2 weeks or longer for it to start to settle? several bottles over the years, never see anything settled in the sump. differnet formulations?
Originally Posted by Trav
In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless,
If this is true, why does moly appear on VOAs? Are XOM/Valvolline etc just plain wrong, and living in the past?
If the fully formulated and blended oil in the bottle (blended by experts, BTW) contains moly then stating that it is abolutely worthless suggests that every last human in the PCMO business is stupid and wrong.
Write them a lette eplaining why their add pack is wrong, and ask them to send proposals for newer, better, more affective add packs.
In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless,
If this is true, why does moly appear on VOAs? Are XOM/Valvolline etc just plain wrong, and living in the past?
If the fully formulated and blended oil in the bottle (blended by experts, BTW) contains moly then stating that it is abolutely worthless suggests that every last human in the PCMO business is stupid and wrong.
Write them a lette eplaining why their add pack is wrong, and ask them to send proposals for newer, better, more affective add packs.
Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Maybe the car has to sit for 2 weeks or longer for it to start to settle? several bottles over the years, never see anything settled in the sump. differnet formulations?
Maybe 2 weeks, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. I saw the pictures, and Trav started and moved the car before dropping the oil pan, so the stuff didn't go back into suspension. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words.
I occasionally go on vacations, and travel by air, so my cars might sit a week, maybe more. If I work in NYC I use the LIRR, so my van could sit for weeks. Having said that I have dabbled in additives, if I were inclined to want to boost moly, there are better choices IMO than LM's MoS2. Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant uses a different moly, a moly which oil companies use, that stays in suspension. Knowing that I see no point in using MoS2 for anything other than coating bullets. Just to be clear, not all if it falls out of suspension, but there was quite a bit in Trav's pictures. As always opinions vary.
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;
My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)
as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?
lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Maybe the car has to sit for 2 weeks or longer for it to start to settle? several bottles over the years, never see anything settled in the sump. differnet formulations?
Maybe 2 weeks, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. I saw the pictures, and Trav started and moved the car before dropping the oil pan, so the stuff didn't go back into suspension. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words.
I occasionally go on vacations, and travel by air, so my cars might sit a week, maybe more. If I work in NYC I use the LIRR, so my van could sit for weeks. Having said that I have dabbled in additives, if I were inclined to want to boost moly, there are better choices IMO than LM's MoS2. Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant uses a different moly, a moly which oil companies use, that stays in suspension. Knowing that I see no point in using MoS2 for anything other than coating bullets. Just to be clear, not all if it falls out of suspension, but there was quite a bit in Trav's pictures. As always opinions vary.
Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by Trav
In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless,
If this is true, why does moly appear on VOAs? Are XOM/Valvolline etc just plain wrong, and living in the past?
If the fully formulated and blended oil in the bottle (blended by experts, BTW) contains moly then stating that it is abolutely worthless suggests that every last human in the PCMO business is stupid and wrong.
Write them a lette eplaining why their add pack is wrong, and ask them to send proposals for newer, better, more affective add packs.
You just made my point, thank you! Many oils do contain moly but not the one that is based MoS2 solids.Even LIQUI MOLY oils with AFAIK one exception don't contain any of their own MoS2 product.
Originally Posted by Trav
In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless,
If this is true, why does moly appear on VOAs? Are XOM/Valvolline etc just plain wrong, and living in the past?
If the fully formulated and blended oil in the bottle (blended by experts, BTW) contains moly then stating that it is abolutely worthless suggests that every last human in the PCMO business is stupid and wrong.
Write them a lette eplaining why their add pack is wrong, and ask them to send proposals for newer, better, more affective add packs.
You just made my point, thank you! Many oils do contain moly but not the one that is based MoS2 solids.Even LIQUI MOLY oils with AFAIK one exception don't contain any of their own MoS2 product.
Nothing great about this report over the one before it.
Originally Posted by Trav
Okay but lets say for the sake of argument that its doesn't fall out of suspension (I have seen different in oil pans and a mod here did extensive testing and found it did also), what exactly are you gaining with this stuff?
What it does and what you gain is explained right here on BITOG...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Several years ago there were electron microscope pictures posted with the article showing how the moly plated the metal wear surfaces.
An excerpt from the article (for those of you that don't want to look for yourself)...
Engineers have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn't filtered out. Since that time, the product has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today's engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
Okay but lets say for the sake of argument that its doesn't fall out of suspension (I have seen different in oil pans and a mod here did extensive testing and found it did also), what exactly are you gaining with this stuff?
What it does and what you gain is explained right here on BITOG...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Several years ago there were electron microscope pictures posted with the article showing how the moly plated the metal wear surfaces.
An excerpt from the article (for those of you that don't want to look for yourself)...
Engineers have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn't filtered out. Since that time, the product has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today's engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by Trav
Okay but lets say for the sake of argument that its doesn't fall out of suspension (I have seen different in oil pans and a mod here did extensive testing and found it did also), what exactly are you gaining with this stuff?
What it does and what you gain is explained right here on BITOG...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Several years ago there were electron microscope pictures posted with the article showing how the moly plated the metal wear surfaces.
An excerpt from the article (for those of you that don't want to look for yourself)...
Engineers have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn't filtered out. Since that time, the product has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today's engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
I recall discussion from way back when about that article. IIRC the moly they're referring to in the article is not MoS2. The vast majority of oil manufacturers are not using MoS2 for moly in oil formulation. In any event there is better suited moly for it, that stays in suspension. Perhaps one of our residents can weigh in on the moly used in engine oil.
Originally Posted by Trav
Okay but lets say for the sake of argument that its doesn't fall out of suspension (I have seen different in oil pans and a mod here did extensive testing and found it did also), what exactly are you gaining with this stuff?
What it does and what you gain is explained right here on BITOG...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Several years ago there were electron microscope pictures posted with the article showing how the moly plated the metal wear surfaces.
An excerpt from the article (for those of you that don't want to look for yourself)...
Engineers have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn't filtered out. Since that time, the product has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today's engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
I recall discussion from way back when about that article. IIRC the moly they're referring to in the article is not MoS2. The vast majority of oil manufacturers are not using MoS2 for moly in oil formulation. In any event there is better suited moly for it, that stays in suspension. Perhaps one of our residents can weigh in on the moly used in engine oil.
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