Ford F150 2015+ 5.0 Actually Have Tighter Clearances [or 5w20 Just for CAFE? ]

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Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by Fallguy


I still suspect its all mostly just for CAFE but would like to hear from anyone with engine building experience/knowledge of the specs on the items above.

regards,


why is this discussion still going on? seriously, ford switch to 20 weight oils 20 years ago.

sure, better fuel economy was certainly a factor in the decision. So what?





Ford did have to switch back to a 5w30 on some of the engines.... .
 
Originally Posted by bbhero
True demarpaint... Shannow posted information about that some time ago....

Yes, and it still comes up very often.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.

That blows the bearing clearances changed myth we hear from time to time for those engines right out of the water..


I will look up more later, but the differences were at most a .001mm variation.

Also there is no internal difference between a 5.0 that calls for 5W20 and one that calls for 5W50(my car).
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.

That blows the bearing clearances changed myth we hear from time to time for those engines right out of the water..


What else blows it out if the water is the same engines used in countries other than the USA specify a range if acceptable oil viscosity based on ambient temperatures and vehicle use (towing, high speed driving, etc).

So yeah, the "thinner oils are designed for tighter bearing clearances" is a misconception that has gained traction to try and "justify" it's use instead of the real reason being CAFE.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.

That blows the bearing clearances changed myth we hear from time to time for those engines right out of the water..


Exactly. People confuse tolerance, which has improved/tightened with modern machining/tooling, and clearance, which has largely been stagnant for decades. Bearings need a certain amount of clearance to operate properly, you just cannot get around that. A tighter tolerance means more uniformity in the clearance.
 
5w20 is at most 15-25% thinner than 5w30 at operating temp.
IIRC a 5w30 10 degrees hotter can be thinner than a 5w20.

That being said as long as oil temps are under control it will live a long life on 5w20.
If you beat on it constantly tow up long mountains, drive in death valley I would probably go thicker

If its -20f in winter.. I'd definitely use a 0w20.
etc use brain.. whatever makes you comfortable.
 
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by Fallguy


I still suspect its all mostly just for CAFE but would like to hear from anyone with engine building experience/knowledge of the specs on the items above.

regards,


why is this discussion still going on? seriously, ford switch to 20 weight oils 20 years ago.

sure, better fuel economy was certainly a factor in the decision. So what?





Ford did have to switch back to a 5w30 on some of the engines.... .

And so what does Ford Recommend for the 2020 F-150? The envelope please:

From the 2020 F-150 owners manual:

5.0 is 5w20 and 0w20 for extreme cold.

The 2.7 and 3.5 Ecobost engines both get 5w30 and 0w30 for extreme cold.

After 20 years Ford still recommends 5w20 for the F-150 5.0.

18.gif
 
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CLIMATE dictates viscosity - CLEARANCES do not.

The climate x viscosity chart has been posted on here many many times but people continue to make the mistake of thinking that climate is not important - as evidenced by all the sumps full of 20 and 30 being used hard, in Texas.

Climate counts, kids.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.

That blows the bearing clearances changed myth we hear from time to time for those engines right out of the water..


What else blows it out if the water is the same engines used in countries other than the USA specify a range if acceptable oil viscosity based on ambient temperatures and vehicle use (towing, high speed driving, etc).

So yeah, the "thinner oils are designed for tighter bearing clearances" is a misconception that has gained traction to try and "justify" it's use instead of the real reason being CAFE.


Yep, the fully imported (for us) Ford Mustang with the 5.0L V8 is spec'd 5W30 by Ford Australia. To be precise a full synthetic 5W30 that carries ACEA A5/B5 and Ford 913-D spec, which is a high zinc oil (~ 1000 ppm).

Lots of 5W20 and 0W20 here now days, so it's not for lack of thinner oils.

If you want to keep your warranty with Ford Australia, best to run a 5W30 with 913-D.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.

That blows the bearing clearances changed myth we hear from time to time for those engines right out of the water..


What else blows it out if the water is the same engines used in countries other than the USA specify a range if acceptable oil viscosity based on ambient temperatures and vehicle use (towing, high speed driving, etc).

So yeah, the "thinner oils are designed for tighter bearing clearances" is a misconception that has gained traction to try and "justify" it's use instead of the real reason being CAFE.

For sure. My bad, that totally skipped my mind.
 
Ahh noticed I stated.... Some of their motors.... I can't totally recall off the top of my head...

And I'm right by the way about that....
 
Quote


What else blows it out if the water is the same engines used in countries other than the USA specify a range if acceptable oil viscosity based on ambient temperatures and vehicle use (towing, high speed driving, etc).



The shoking part is that people know and acknowledge this fact but continue to believe the manual instead of their brains.
 
As I have stated before … have two vehicles that were spec'd for 0w20 nationwide. It was not a reprint of an owners manual but rather when the new engine, variable displacement lubrication, and oil/engine cooling systems came out. Sure, it's meant to help with fuel economy - but to also force the use of a higher quality motor oil across the masses. There are a number of controls that are basically electric over hydraulic and also based on that viscosity. Even the pattern of piston jet impingement is effected by viscosity. They don't have mile long chains, all that. For mine, nothing to worry about.
 
Originally Posted by Fallguy
I hear those that are against using 5w30 state that newer Fords have tighter clearances. But then they never advise what the old/new clearance difference are. I do not know much of clearances but would be most interesting to find out.

(1.) Is it verifiable that ford clearances have changed/tightened ( in particular ford 5.0 2015+ ).

(2.) Is thinner oil 5w20 required for tighter clearances so the oil can get in between better and pump up a better hydrodynamic wedge?

I still suspect its all mostly just for CAFE but would like to hear from anyone with engine building experience/knowledge of the specs on the items above.

regards,


This discussion started around 2001-2002 when Ford switched to 5W-20 for the bulk of its fleet. The same engines coming out of Romeo sold overseas often used synthetic 5W-50. So no, the tolerances aren't so tight that 5W-20 is required. It is purely for CAFE/fuel economy.

The 3.5L EcoBoost when it first came out in 2009 for the MKS and 2010 SHO, Ford said to use 5W-20. Somehow automagically when the F-150 debuted with the 3.5L EcoBoost, all of the engines now used 5W-30.
 
Lots of power intensity in the EcoBoost … as much or more than larger V8 with more rods/bearings …
 
Originally Posted by bbhero
Ahh noticed I stated.... Some of their motors.... I can't totally recall off the top of my head...

And I'm right by the way about that....


Yes, you bet. I just brought out in the light which ones.
The dead horse thing was just general commentary on the 20 years of hand wringing over the topic, not directed specifically to you.
smile.gif


Also it's actually 20 years of 5w20 with the overhead cam V8 modular engines (the 4.6, then the 5.0 starting in 2011).
 
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Originally Posted by 4WD
Lots of power intensity in the EcoBoost … as much or more than larger V8 with more rods/bearings …

Plus more fuel dilution.
 
So we now have about 10 years worth of 4.6 liter modular engine production staring in the year 2000, as well as 10 years of 5.0 production, all with the owner manuals recommending 5w20. Do we feel the 4.6 engines failed prematurely? Are there any class action suites going on? Surely some must have 200,000 miles by now.

Disclosure: I have 5w30 in my 2005 Taurus.What the heck.
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
So we now have about 10 years worth of 4.6 liter modular engine production staring in the year 2000, as well as 10 years of 5.0 production, all with the owner manuals recommending 5w20. Do we feel the 4.6 engines failed prematurely? Are there any class action suites going on? Surely some must have 200,000 miles by now.

Disclosure: I have 5w30 in my 2005 Taurus.What the heck.
smile.gif



With the technology and materials available today 500K cars should be a very common thing and they don't seem to be there yet.
crazy2.gif
shocked2.gif
 
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