Don't forget about your clutch fluid

My 1984 Rabbit GTI had a cable actuated shifter and clutch and never had any problem at all, Worked well, just the right amount of feel in the pedal too.
1996 Golf GL 2.0L had a rod actuated shifter and cable clutch and both worked perfectly actually the shifter in this car was smoother and a bit more positive than the
1984 Rabbit GTI but not by much...

I agree Hydraulic clutches are NOT a positive in any way, whether reliability or pedal feel.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
... I agree Hydraulic clutches are NOT a positive in any way, whether reliability or pedal feel.
I didn't know they existed until I was asked to help repair the one in a friend's late-1970s(?) Saab. It seemed a dumb idea then, and still does.
 
Higher horsepower and torque engines need a hydraulic clutch for the clamping force of the cover. You could use a cable but you would need some big levers and the space may not be there. Leg fatigue may also be an issue with a mechanically actuated clutch. I have driven a couple vehicles that require a well conditioned left leg to actuate precisely. They would easily disqualify many woman and smaller folks. Doesn't really matter much anymore. Not a lot of clutches being built for anything anymore.
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
Higher horsepower and torque engines need a hydraulic clutch for the clamping force of the cover. You could use a cable but you would need some big levers and the space may not be there. Leg fatigue may also be an issue with a mechanically actuated clutch. I have driven a couple vehicles that require a well conditioned left leg to actuate precisely. They would easily disqualify many woman and smaller folks. Doesn't really matter much anymore. Not a lot of clutches being built for anything anymore.

the pivot point on the pedal is one consideration, the strength of the fingers springs is the other. multi-plate clutches give significantly more surface area, and therefore grip, for the same surface area, making cables suitable and easy to use in hoigh power applications.

the master and slave in a hydro setup take away a lot of the tactile sensation, and as such are often used with 'delay valves' which add an additional level of cost and complaxity that is simply not needed. Cables and multiple plates are quicker and easier and cheaper to fit/inspect/diagnose/repair because there are much less components.

hydro clutches have their place, but its not in vehicles that people enjoy a high level of involvement.
 
Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by sloinker
Higher horsepower and torque engines need a hydraulic clutch for the clamping force of the cover. You could use a cable but you would need some big levers and the space may not be there. Leg fatigue may also be an issue with a mechanically actuated clutch. I have driven a couple vehicles that require a well conditioned left leg to actuate precisely. They would easily disqualify many woman and smaller folks. Doesn't really matter much anymore. Not a lot of clutches being built for anything anymore.

the pivot point on the pedal is one consideration, the strength of the fingers springs is the other. multi-plate clutches give significantly more surface area, and therefore grip, for the same surface area, making cables suitable and easy to use in hoigh power applications.

the master and slave in a hydro setup take away a lot of the tactile sensation, and as such are often used with 'delay valves' which add an additional level of cost and complaxity that is simply not needed. Cables and multiple plates are quicker and easier and cheaper to fit/inspect/diagnose/repair because there are much less components.

hydro clutches have their place, but its not in vehicles that people enjoy a high level of involvement.



I'm thinking you may be hard pressed to find any sports or muscle car nowadays without a hydraulic clutch system. It may also be difficult to buy an aftermarket multi-disc clutch that isn't hydraulic either. There are exceptions to this rule. I'm not discounting that the cable system may have better tactile feedback but Porsche and Audi among others are ignoring this premise. It isn't impossible to find an aftermarket mechanical clutch multi disc system but since they are built for higher demands and utilize higher clamping forces they are invariably hydraulic. The cable operated clutch isn't found much anymore in any automotive application.
 
Plenty of manual transmissions being sold in Europe and the row. Only us and Canada prefer auto units.
 
This is what I went with. It seemed to be a good option - still DOT 3 (as specified in the OM), specifically formulated for Asian vehicles, and with a good boiling point of 252 C/486 F.

The company is Recochem Inc., which the bottle states imported and packaged the fluid in Canada. COO = US?

IMG_8489 - Copy.JPG
 
There was a time some years ago in the german Honda del Sol community, when the cars where 10+ years old and used.
Every few weeks a member came up with the same question: "Help, my clutch padal just went to to the floor and dont come back.."

All of them had failing clutch master or slave cylinders. None of them with this problem has ever changed the clutch fluid. Some dont know about it, some think the shop does it (but never does..) , some just say "I thought it was a waste of money.."

Many pictures of clutch master reservoirs filled with black sludge, remainings of DOT4, occured in the forum.

I change the clutch fluid togehter with the brake fluid every two or three years. It is a fluid that brakes down over time, easy work and dirt cheap. There is just no excuse for not doing it.
 
Originally Posted by Lubener
Not needed, I still have the original fluid in my 87 and never had a problem.
Well, it was certainly needed in my car! (And many years ago my '71 Corolla had the same symptoms, and the fix was the same. I had had the car in at the dealership just a few weeks before, and they had not changed it as part of the big 40,000 mile service. I guess it was not a recommended service, but in my opinion it should have been.)
 
Clutch Slave cylinders do go south, primarily due to rust and corrosion from old worn out fluid. I've bled them and replaced them - the old fluid that comes out is just a nasty black mess.

I've never driven a vehicle with a light effort non-hydraulic clutch. The leg strength needed to operate a non-hydraulic clutch in heavy stop and go traffic is so high that I'd bet half the driving population couldn't do it. For those that could most would hate it.

There's a reason almost all late model manual trans cars have hydraulic clutches - much lighter clutch effort.
 
When I had my 2013 Camaro, the clutch fluid came from the brakes. The guys on the Camaro forum used a clutch reservoir from the GTO to put on the Camaro to separate it. The fluid would get black from the brake fluid share. This helped keep it cleaner.
 
The evo shared the brake fluid reservoir. Many didn't change or bleed it out of the slave cylinder unless they were doing a clutch job - including the track guys but I got rid of and stopped following the Evo pages some ~5 years after the car was released so I guess I didn't stick around long enough to find out if old clutch fluid did anything to the slave....Plus clutch replacements around 30K were the norm because people didn't know how to drive :/.
 
Hydraulic clutch actuation was a technological great leap backwards, in my opinion. In over 1.4 million miles combined, I, my brother, and our parents never had a single problem with clutch cables or linkage.

I've replaced my fair share of cutch cables
 
Originally Posted by Number_35
The clutch and the brake system share the same fluid reservoir.


Not sure if that's a good design. What if one system has a leak? Than both systems are compromised. My Honda's have a separate clutch fluid reservoir.

[Linked Image from fototime.com]

The pick up point for the clutch is higher than for the brakes. If there's a leak that drains both sides of the split brake circuit, what good is the clutch? You're not going anywhere... but the clutch master would still be full of fluid anyway
 
I wondered about DOT-4. I've been reading a lot about brake fluid over the past few days, and am trying to sort through some of the information out there. As they say, it's a bit like trying to drink out of a firehose. Here are some of the things that seem to have been said consistently:

- As the DOT number increases, so does the boiling point. Therefore, all other things being equal, a higher DOT number is better.

- Brake fluid is rated DOT-3, -4, -5, and -5.1

- DOT-3, -4, and -5.1 are glycol-based, and are hygroscopic. That is, they absorb water. As they do so, their boiling point decreases.

- DOT-5 is silicone-based, and does not absorb water.

- The glycol-based and silicone-based fluids are not compatible, and must not be mixed.

- The glycol-based fluids have both a "dry" and a "wet" boiling point. The dry boiling point applies to new fluid, and the wet boiling point applies to fluid containing a certain % of moisture. As the moisture content increases, the boiling point drops. It can drop so low that heat from the brakes can cause the contaminated fluid to boil, rendering the brakes ineffective.

- DOT-4 is more hygroscopic than DOT-3.

- DOT-4's wet performance drops off much more quickly than DOT-3's. That is, at some level of water contamination, DOT-4's boiling point will be lower than DOT-3's.

- DOT-4 and DOT-5.1 contain certain elements that can degrade the rubber seals in brake (and clutch) systems designed for DOT-3 fluid.

- If a system were rated for both DOT-3 and DOT-4, I would not hesitate to use DOT-4 if I were to be diligent in bleeding the system annually or so.

Please jump in and correct any of the above that's incorrect! Given that our vehicle specifies DOT-3 fluid, I would worry about using DOT-4, although the LV formula sounds like a good fit for our winters.
Good post. Thanks
 
Originally Posted by CR94
Hydraulic clutch actuation was a technological great leap backwards, in my opinion. In over 1.4 million miles combined, I, my brother, and our parents never had a single problem with clutch cables or linkage.

Been a long time, but I recall cable being smoother than mechanical. But hydraulic... very smooth. But cable does allow one to set the engagement point to where one wants it, so there's that. But cables can rust out so maybe it's all a wash.

I am reminded that I've never changed it in the Camry... one more thing to look into.
exactly. I much prefer mechanical over hydraulic for adjusting where you want it to engage. My almost new hydraulic clutch engages much higher than I prefer and I'm rolling backwards on a hill into the grill of the car behind me before it engages. Never had this problem/PITA on a mechanical linkage clutch. Been driving manuals on all kinds of cars, motorcycles and trucks for 50 years and know how to use a clutch. German POS engineering at its best
 
I flush and fill my clutch fluid every 1 - 2 years on both motorcycles and truck. I use the Motul 5.1 for both brakes and clutch on Super Tenere and GMC. On my Beta off road bike I use Motul 600 or 660.

The 5.1 is good for up to 2 years without fear of moisture (daily driver). The 600/660 is good for 1 year of trail riding or 1 race.

If you are the type of person that is into pour and forget between brake jobs then DOT 3 or 4 is your best bet. The higher the wet boiling point the quicker it degrades.
 
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