Recent Topics
Pecan Pie Cheesecake Recipe
by GumbyJarvis - 04/06/20 05:03 AM
Dewalt DXCM251 25-Gal Oiled Air Compressor
by The Critic - 04/06/20 03:40 AM
Windows File & Folder Fix Tool
by ZeeOSix - 04/06/20 01:53 AM
$.25 washer fluid at WM
by joel95ex - 04/06/20 12:13 AM
`16 Suburban OLM never tripped due to time
by zfasts03 - 04/05/20 11:26 PM
Straight 30W [Briggs & Stratton] @ Amazon
by SlavaB - 04/05/20 10:56 PM
Bosch 3323 Premium Filter Cut Open
by TrainingPolicy - 04/05/20 10:29 PM
CARQUEST Premium Oil filter 84341 Cut Open
by TrainingPolicy - 04/05/20 10:12 PM
C-1706 SAKURA Cut Open
by QuangTeo - 04/05/20 10:07 PM
Had to smile
by AZjeff - 04/05/20 10:04 PM
Childhood friend dies
by Marco620 - 04/05/20 10:00 PM
Leftover 100LL in vehicle
by PantherFan88 - 04/05/20 09:42 PM
The good old days.:)
by A310 - 04/05/20 09:04 PM
Harvest king switched suppliers confirmed.
by Micahmcmeen - 04/05/20 08:15 PM
Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be?
by NorCalHD - 04/05/20 06:21 PM
Bad Rear Brakes- Not obvious
by ford46guy - 04/05/20 05:03 PM
Move car w/ NO coolant?
by SavagePatch - 04/05/20 04:39 PM
VIRGIN BOSCH 3400 CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude - 04/05/20 04:18 PM
First vehicle you ever purchased?
by 53' Stude - 04/05/20 03:56 PM
Newest Members
F7daved, khouan, daniell, carguy1701, London
71106 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
53 registered members (Astro14, Char Baby, BeerCan, bbhero, 3 invisible), 1,309 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics303,661
Posts5,239,340
Members71,106
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. #5355987 02/20/20 09:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
S
SubLGT Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
I have been shopping for an external hard drive, and encountered confusing descriptions about what USB ports are on the device.

This article cleared it up, but it is still very complicated.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-31-usb-type-c-refresher,29933.html

A few excerpts:

Quote
...over the last year or so, there have been many developments in the USB space, and although the official specifications haven't changed, we've consolidated and explained all the helpful information around USB 3.0, both versions of USB 3.1, and the USB Type-C connector........we spoke at length with the USB Implementer's Forum (USB-IF) to craft a primer, if you will, about all things USB and Type-C.

...There are two types of USB 3.1: There's a Gen1 and a Gen2, and they offer different data transfer speeds. Both USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 Gen1 can transfer data at speeds up to 5.0 Gbps (8b/10b encoding), whereas USB 3.1 Gen2 can transfer data at speeds up to 10 Gbps (128b/132b encoding).

USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 Gen1 are actually the same thing -- almost. Simply put, USB 3.1 Gen1 is USB 3.0 plus all of the changes that have been made to USB 3.0 over the years. According to the USB-IF's documents, these changes include "added performance boosts to meet requirements for USB storage, display and docking applications," as well as USB 3.0 Engineering Change Notices (ECNs).

...You may have never even seen an OEM specify "Gen1" or "Gen2" in marketing materials mentioning USB 3.1. Partially, this is because the USB-IF uses specific branding to clarify which USB 3.1 is which. USB 3.1 Rev1 (5 Gbps) is called "SuperSpeed USB," and USB 3.1 Rev2 (10 Gbps) is called "SuperSpeed USB 10 Gbps." Note that on the actual logos, these appear as "SuperSpeed" and "SuperSpeed+," respectively. (What's in a "+" sign? Double the data speed, that's what.)

...not only are there multiple versions of USB 3.1 that require clarification, USB Type-C is a much more flexible connector (pun not intended) than older USB standards, and USB PD is another wildcard; in other words, the mere presence of a Type-C port on a device tells you little about what that particular port can do.

...As we mentioned, "USB Type-C" doesn't mean "USB 3.1." Although many -- possibly, most -- applications of USB Type-C will involve USB (one "Gen" or the other), the USB Type-C port design allows for additional features...........For starters, there is USB Power Delivery, which is a feature that allows devices to deliver up to 100 W of power through a USB port...........Additionally, USB Type-C can support DisplayPort as an Alternate Mode, as well as MHL and Thunderbolt 3 (with Intel's new Alpine Ridge controller). Theoretically, one could route just about any protocol through USB Type-C.

...One USB Type-C cable won't be identical to another, which means consumers will have to be careful when buying one, paying close attention to a given cable's capabilities


Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5355995 02/20/20 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
S
SubLGT Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
This site has useful info about the various USB connector types:

https://www.cablestogo.com/learning/connector-guides/usb

Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356021 02/20/20 10:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,313
Skippy722 Offline
Offline
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,313
I’d get one with USB 3.1. Assuming it’s a traditional spinning external HDD, you won’t see anywhere near the 5Gbps transfer speed of USB 3.1 Gen 1 anyway.

Unless you have a MacBook that only has USB C ports.

Last edited by Skippy722; 02/20/20 10:05 PM.

2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356033 02/20/20 10:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,477
V
Vern_in_IL Offline
Offline
V
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,477
You forgot about "Thunderbolt 3" using the same connector.


USB 1.0-3.0 was great, backwards compatible and not confusing.

Now USB 3.1+ is like "will it run external graphics cards" like everyone does that.... ever.

I personally think the physical connectors are too small, and fragile.

But forcing this thing on us(Apple Inc.) is just wrong. Most don't see a need for a USB-C/Thunderbolt3 5 button mouse.. smirk Then there comes the docks and adapters!!!! USB3.0 is perfect for a thumb drive. I feel the "form factor" is going too small.

It's like if the Fed Reserve released a new One dollar coin the size of a BB pellet....

Last edited by Vern_in_IL; 02/20/20 10:29 PM.
Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356075 02/20/20 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
S
SubLGT Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
USB 3.2 is in the pipeline. Hopefully it will simplify things.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3.0-usb-3.1-becomes-usb-3.2,38699.html

Quote
...Remember when the USB 3.0 standard was eventually rebranded to USB 3.1 Gen 1? Well, history is about to repeat itself once again. The USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF) announced at MWC 2019 that the new USB 3.2 standard will absorb the prior USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 specifications.

...Both USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 are to be considered generations of the USB 3.2 specification. USB 3.1 Gen 1 (formerly known as USB 3.0), which offers speeds up to 5 Gbps, will be rebranded into USB 3.2 Gen 1 while USB 3.1 Gen 2, which supports communication rates up to 10 Gbps, will be called USB 3.2 Gen 2 moving forward. Since USB 3.2 has double the throughput (20 Gbps) of USB 3.1 Gen 2, the updated standard has been designated as USB 3.2 Gen 2x2.

...It's of utter importance that manufacturers and vendors communicate each USB 3.2 standard to the consumer in a clear way. To avoid overwhelming the consumer with technicalities, USB-IF suggested a separate marketing nomenclature for each standard. USB 3.2 Gen 1 should be identified as SuperSpeed USB while USB 3.2 Gen 2 and USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 are labeled as SuperSpeed USB 10Gbps and SuperSpeed USB 20Gbps, respectively.

Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356163 02/21/20 04:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 612
C
Carmudgeon Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 612
Yeah, it's a freakin' mess.

What the organization behind USB managed to do was create a universal connector (Type-C), then throw the kitchen sink's worth of functions at it, backed by a harebrained marketing/naming scheme devised by engineers, most of it not friendly to users.

Whereas in the past, it was pretty easy to discern different cables by their connectors, and what they were capable of, there are actually eight different types of C-to-C cables.

In theory, having fewer connectors, or perhaps even a universal connector, is great, but imagine if every connection in your vehicle used the same type of connector. You'd have to then decode the role of a specific connection by investigating and decoding the cable that feeds it.

That's what users are forced to do with Type-C, having to make sure that a particular cable can achieve the desired goal, meets current capacity/length requirements, data transfer speed, or active/passive marking.

And that's in a perfect world which assumes that implementations will be perfect, and no corners cut by vendors.

The only consolation is that the majority of users seeking Type-C cables are only concerned with a single thing -- whether it will fast charge their device -- since that is the primary function that cables serve for most people now.

So what could have been somewhat of a clear break, and advancement in technology with the new standards has resulted in Amazon being flooded with C-cables that will only transfer at USB 2.0 speeds, because they're cheaper to make and what will sell well, as long as they fast charge. Those who are concerned with data transfers has to specifically seek out a more expensive 3.1/3.2 Gen1 or Gen2 specific cable, because the USB-IF didn't want to have all new cables meet a higher minimum standard.

Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356232 02/21/20 07:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,506
C
Cujet Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,506
My new gaming rig claims to have:

1 x USB Type-C™ port, with USB 3.1 Gen 2 support
3 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-A ports (red)
2 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 ports
4 x USB 2.0/1.1 ports

(Gigabyte Aorus Ultra motherboard)

Yet that's not what the back panel says, as two yellow ports are labeled as 3.0 DAC UP. (voltage drop compensation for higher loads? )

Last edited by Cujet; 02/21/20 08:05 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: Cujet] #5356295 02/21/20 09:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 856
P
Pew Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 856
Originally Posted by Cujet
Yet that's not what the back panel says, as two yellow ports are labeled as 3.0 DAC UP. (voltage drop compensation for higher loads? )


The DAC UPs are for external USB DACs or headsets.

Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356556 02/21/20 02:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 28
L
LDM Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 28
If you are just getting an external USB hard drive, the only thing you really need to worry about is if the device you are using it on has USB A or USB C ports. No way you are going to get a USB interface on an external hard drive to max out the 3.0 or 3.1 speed limits. If you have both types of ports, then you will just need to decide which one you want to use.

USB C was suppose to make everything simpler but it really hasn't. Having a universal plug in on both ends sounds like a good idea, but since 90% of all devices still use the older style A, B, mini, and micro ports, all it has really done is create a requirement to have dongles and adapters when you have only USB C. It also creates more problems in that it takes away a USB A port, which means it may require a hub to be able to run more than 4-5 devices. Not an issue on larger PCs but for laptops and micro desktop PCs (pretty much everything we use at the place I work for), it definitely can create some issues. I suppose in time as more devices go to C this won't be as much of an issue but right now its still a pain.

Last edited by LDM; 02/21/20 02:37 PM.

2018 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT 6.2 Max Tow
1994 Chevy Camaro Z28 5.7
1989 Chevy Camaro IROCZ28 5.7
Re: USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion. [Re: SubLGT] #5356881 02/21/20 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
S
SubLGT Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,974
https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/...ill-reigns-over-usb-c-thunderbolt-cables

Quote
...It is hard to believe the vast amount of confusion that continues over cables with USB-C/Thunderbolt connectors. These cables may be the future of computing, but right now they are a big, sloppy confusing mess. The problem is cables that handle USB-C, Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3.1 all have the same connector and look alike but do different things.

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™