Castrol Syntec 5w-50, my mechanic says...

[Alex D]

Sooooooo, do all other viscosities of M1 also have:
2500ppm Calcium, 1200 ppm phosphorus and over 1300 ppm Zinc all rounded up with 90 ppm Moly and a trace of Magnesium at 50 ppm. I doubt that. Even Boron in the 15W-50 is on the high end of M1 VOAs at 230 ppm. This is clearly a very heavy additive package bult purposely for high engine rpm, temps and loads. No starburst here.....

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Originally posted by G-Man II:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
I'd agree with Alex, the M1, 15w-50 has the additive chemistry that ALL their Mobil 1 products should have. ...

For example, it's the only grade that has a decent # of ZDDP, as well as some boron

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All grades of Mobil 1 have about the same amount of boron from the VOAs that have been posted.

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[ November 10, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Alex D ]

 

[TooSlick]

Alex,

That's precisely what I was referring to ....

The additive chemistry of the 15w-50 looks like Amsoil or Redline - that's no accident.

Tooslick

 

[JohnBrowning]

Tsoa have you even tried M1 15W50? If so what did the UOA say? Please post the UOA of your run with Syntec 5W50 so we can compare.

1)At least johnicon actualy tried both products under near identical conditions!
2) If your Master Tech. could prove that the oil was the cause of failure then his customers would be getting free engines!

ExxonMobile is one of the largest petrolem rifiners in the world! Do you really think that they would open them selfs up for consumer liability class action suite by puting out a product that caused engine failures?

P.S. If you seldom respond to any one that replys to your post then why should anyone reply to you???

 

[oilcanboyd]

my father has been a porsche, mercedes, and bmw mechanic (mostly porsches) for over 30+ years and he says motor oil is just motor oil. he thinks that synthetics is a waste of money and he uses whatever i have laying around the garage. he used to use castrol 20w-50 until he started using my supply of chevron supreme 10w-40.

 

[Flimflam]

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Originally posted by TSoA:
It's the only synthetic oil he will use. Let's just say I trust the guy implicitly, he holds a competition racing licence, owns a Bosch Service Center and is actively involved with some of the top Audi tuners in the USA. A pile of blown European engines.........those hunks were running Mobil 1. He claims building oil pressure is a problem with Mobil 1 (15w-50, I assume) and he sees many lower engine failures on the M1. I relayed the argument that M1 is the most popular oil.......he says no. He has experienced the same "incidents" that destroyed Porsche and S-car engines on Mobil 1...with the 50 weight Syntec "never" a failure. Again, I trust the guy, 25 years a Master Porsche+Audi mechanic, his dad 40 years a master BMW mechanic. He even said he will not bother discussing motor oils with any other customer except me, but explained the extreme pressures the 50 weight oil handles makes it the only choice for him (and his customers since he had 2 full drums of it) also he "hates" Mobil 1 " Mobil 1.

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It is all true, Man. M*1 destroys engines. I have been saying so for 18 years now, and will continue to say so. But only to those who will listen.

 

[Last_Z]

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Originally posted by Alex D:
Is that positive that Syntec 5W-30 is a Group III ?? I thought only some of the Syntec line is Group III such as the 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
It would be interesting to see someone run this oil. The 5W-50 is a group III (according to people here) and as you implied, it would shear, especially with that very wide spread. There is a VOA of it and it's additives looked decent. It would be nice if it was a PAO, I would definitely give it some thought.
Rick

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AlexD,
I don't know....read my post again....I'm not claiming anything.

 

[Robbie Alexander]

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Originally posted by Spector:
-*-*-*
You have to go with what you think is best and makes you sleep at night, that's all that matters in the long run.

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Yup. In a way I agree, Sir.
I was told that "you will find many many many people have their own opinion on oil, and of them only a handful that you meet over the years, will actually have any real truth or understanding on oil... most people think they are right, and they are; in their own mind, but in real life, they are dead wrong, but will not take enough time, on average to have a real life heart to heart discussion about oil to gain any truths about it, most people have their minds made up already, so don't try to convert anyone to using our oil, Robert, just do me that favor and don't take it too hard like many new salespeople do... okay?

 

[Last_Z]

The following is from Castrol USA website:

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Question: How does SYNTEC bond to engine parts?

Answer: SYNTEC's unique chemical esters bond to engine parts. A thin oxide coating exists on the surface of metal components that can develop a positive charge due to electron localization. SYNTEC's unique chemical esters are designed to take advantage of this effect.

The attraction between the positive charge of the engine surface and the esters that have a negative charge creates a layer of ester component that is attracted and held to the surface of the metal. In effect, a layer of lubricant becomes affixed to the engine surface creating a long-lasting protective film.

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I wonder what the percentage of ester to GIII is? Syntec might not be that bad after all!
Rick

 

[johnicon]

My old 1993 Grand Marquis had 169,000miles on it when I went cross country (through AZ, NM and such hot places). I drove the same route both ways (~5000 miles each way). Going out there (Seattle), I used M1 15W-50 to control the valve seal-related oil consumption. It didn't burn a drop, which I had never experienced with that car. When I got to Seattle I couldn't find any M1 15W-50, so I put in the Syntec 5W-50. By the time I got back I had added 2-1/2 quarts. I never used that oil again. This was back in Sep/Oct 2001.

 

[TSoA]

Tsoa have you even tried M1 15W50? -YES, I have some in-stock

Please post the UOA of your run with Syntec 5W50 so we can compare -"we?"

1)At least johnicon actualy tried both products under near identical conditions! -some old boat after trekking cross-contry swapping from dino to synth..try reading my response again, more carefully

2) If your Master Tech. could prove that the oil was the cause of failure then his customers would be getting free engines! -nobody tried to set out to legally prove anything, as I understand that is rarely ever done. IRONICLY, my John appeared as an *expert* witness against MOBIL OIL CORP. in his customer's "Skunk Gas" case and WON!!! Funny, you are so quick to doubt people's crudentials.

ExxonMobile is one of the largest petrolem rifiners in the world! Do you really think that they would open them selfs up for consumer liability class action suite by puting out a product that caused engine failures -did I say "caused" engine failure? More like "it did not perform as well as expected"

P.S. If you seldom respond to any one that replys to your post then why should anyone reply to you??? - again, reading for content, I did not say I seldom respond, although that would be my perogative, I said "I try not to dispute people who answer my threads" In your case, I'll make an exception.

[ November 11, 2003, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: TSoA ]

 

[wtd]

In 1993 I bought a new Chevy S-10 4x4 with the 4.3L. I started using Castrol Syntec 5W-50 after the second oil change and used it for the next 20,000 miles. I changed it every 3 months because I never put 3,000 miles on it in that time and I was trying to stay with the oil change recommendation during the warrenty period. Toward the end of the 20,000 miles, the truck was starting to use oil and the engine was very noisy at operating temps. I also was experiencing lower oil pressure. I switched to 5W-30 Mobil 1 but it didn't help anything. I switched to Quaker State conventional at 45,000 miles and continued using it until I got rid of the truck at 54,000 miles.

The engine still used oil and was very noisy when I got rid of it. The noise sounded like it was coming from the bottom end. This was my first new vehicle and I took exceptional care of it so the problems were not from neglect.

I always wondered if the 50wt part of the syntec was too thick for this engine and caused some problems. I've never used it since.

Wayne

 

[Sin City]

I had a 1986 Chevrolet Caprice with the 4.3L V6. My car always made lots of noise and I had to add about 1 quart of oil every 1,000 miles using either 5W-30 or 10W-30. I think the older 4.3L V6 was a poorly built engine. I got rid of the car when it only had about 30,000 miles. I doubt that it is still running today.

[ November 11, 2003, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: Sin City ]

 

[Sin City]

Quote from wtd

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I always wondered if the 50wt part of the syntec was too thick for this engine and caused some problems.

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I think it was Widman that said the 2002 Chevrolet Blazer in South America had either 15W-40 or 20W-50 as it's preferred viscosity. In the US and Canada it is only 5W-30.

 

[ChrisW]

When I went to go see the Infineon Grand Prix of Sonoma, ALMS, I was in the paddock area and saw that the Ferrari 550 team was using Mobil 1 15w-50 as their oil. If ferrari is using it, it has to be good to some degree over other brands of oil.

 

[V6 Diesel]

Here is the link to my Syntec 5w-50 vs Mobil 1 10w-30.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000880#000000

Not exact comparison, 5k miles on Castrol vs. 10k on Mobil 1. Plus auto-rx was run before the Mobil 1 and LC/FP were used with the Mobil 1.

Might have to give the 15w-50 a run next summer to see how it does over 10k miles

 

[Dr. T]

These are my observations and conclusions from this thread and from my experience with Euro. cars:

1. M-1 5-30 is too thin for Euro. engines (and probably some Japanese engines...not sure about U.S. engines - esp. if pushrod design). Aka it's an A1.

2. M-1 15-50 is somewhat too thick for street use especially in the upper 1/4 of the country and Canada in the winter. Probably good as a track grade.

3. A 5-50 eg. Syntec gives you the best of both worlds in the sense of low temp. flow and high temp. protection. Aka, it's an all-temp A3.

4. A lot of people, mechanics and shops think M-1 is 'the bomb'. Since 5-30 is the most popular grade here (N.A.), they use it in their Euro. cars. Track use with this grade and/or prolonged use in general will cause engine detriment (I've experienced it) especially if intervals of 9-10k mi. are abided by. Aka, 5-30 is too thin (A1).

 

[Flimflam]

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Originally posted by Sin City:
I had a 1986 Chevrolet Caprice with the 4.3L V6. My car always made lots of noise and I had to add about 1 quart of oil every 1,000 miles using either 5W-30 or 10W-30. I think the older 4.3L V6 was a poorly built engine. I got rid of the car when it only had about 30,000 miles. I doubt that it is still running today.

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There is a 2.8 v-6 Chevy engine, it goes into the Baby Blazer. I considered buying the Baby Blazer back in 1993-1994. Friends advised me not to go near the 2.8 v-6 Baby Blazer. Crankshaft big end bearings would self-destruct in 10,000 miles, they said. As for the 4.3 v-6 engine, I heard nothing but good words. Ended up buying a Ford Bronco 351 v-8. To my everlasting regret. Flawless engine, but f**ked up clutch and electrical system.

 

[Ron]

Hi,Just looked for the UOA link on Syntec 5w-50 from Blackstone(8/02),but could not find it. Anyway, The report had good numbers for 5-6K miles on a '99-Ford E150 Van/4.2L six.After running D1 in a similar scenerio,we'll see how it compares.

 

[johnicon]

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1)- Hi-mi and worn low-rev engine to begin with, M1 15w-50 is a fine choice, even overkill. Potential for developing problems during a double-trans-continental trip is high to begin with, no doubt you usd more on the return
2)- People here have reported a cases of consumption varying widely upon a switch to synthetic, if that was your situation. Again, an engine with a known problem and the switch might not be helpfull at first
3)- a 5w oil will behave differently when your car is parked if it had seal leaks, passing through more easily. That would account for some diference in oil retention
4)-Sinced you only used that oil once and won't try it again objectively, I can't say your body of experience is enough to draw upon, especially now that both oil's formulations have changed several times

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Took me a while to reply!

1) Don't have an argument with this point.
2) I had been using synthetics for three years in this car, so I can't agree with this point.
3) Yes, my car burned the oil through the valve seals, so you're right about that.
4) Actually, I had used Syntec 5W-50 for quite a while in the car before that trip. I always noticed that it burned more Syntec than M1. The cross country trip experience was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[TC]

Without addressing any warranty requirements, plus the fact that the end result would be a "compromise" one-size-fits-all oil, I imagine one big advantage to using an oil like Syntec 5w-50 is streamlining of the oil inventory for a garage specializing in exotics. Need a synthetic? Syntec 5w-50. Need a light oil for winter? Syntec 5w-50. Need a thicker oil for summer? Syntec 5w-50. Does the customer need me to recommend an oil as part of his lube service, regardless of what his ride is? Syntec 5w-50.

A great oversimplification, of course. But not too far off the mark.