What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation

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wemay

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It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.
 
Originally Posted by blufeb95
Isn't that BMW's certification, I guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay to get them certified by BMW.


Is it? I'm not sure. VW508.00 oils are LL as well. Maybe others too.
 
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I'm sure there are other things involved.
 
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I'm sure there are other things involved.


Thanks. That may well be the long and short of it. So maybe being low SAPS plays into it.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by blufeb95
Isn't that BMW's certification, I guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay to get them certified by BMW.


Is it? I'm not sure. VW508.00 oils are LL as well. Maybe others too.

BMW has a number of oil specs. They all begin with 'LL', for example LL01, LL04, etc, but i'm guessing your question was about long life specs in general and not about these BMW specs in particular.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I'm sure there are other things involved.


Thanks. That may well be the long and short of it. So maybe being low SAPS plays into it.

That's part of it. The level of SAPS has a lot to do with the contamination of DPF systems and catalytic converters.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.

When LL (not BMW) oils were introduced in Europe, it was long before that was common practice here in the US. The designation long life stayed, and other markets also introduced oils capable of long drain intervals.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.

When LL (not BMW) oils were introduced in Europe, it was long before that was common practice here in the US. The designation long life stayed, and other markets also introduced oils capable of long drain intervals.


So it's just an equivalent to the M1AP EdgeEP stuff then?
 
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I'm sure there are other things involved.


So what is the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6? What are those standards about?
Also, you forgot to include 0W-30 grade in the 504.00 mix.
 
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I'm sure there are other things involved.


So what is the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6? What are those standards about?
Also, you forgot to include 0W-30 grade in the 504.00 mix.



NOX, CO, PM etc.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-emissions-standards/
 
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I'm sure there are other things involved.


So what is the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6? What are those standards about?
Also, you forgot to include 0W-30 grade in the 504.00 mix.

Euro5 are combination of emission standards and fuel quality standards. Fuel in Euope is of much better quality than here, which allows long drain intervals.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.

When LL (not BMW) oils were introduced in Europe, it was long before that was common practice here in the US. The designation long life stayed, and other markets also introduced oils capable of long drain intervals.


So it's just an equivalent to the M1AP EdgeEP stuff then?

Not really.
First of all, European manufacturers have approval process. They guarantee that oil that is approved can do long drain.
Second, long drain is specific to market. VW (for example) is recommending intervals based on specifics of that market. In the US it is shorter than in Europe due to fuel quality etc.
What you have in the US when it come to oils like Castrol EP etc. is pure marketing. Some oils might be long drain in certain application, while in other applications are not. But, we do not know that. Can Castrol guarantee that EP will do 20,000 miles in Honda 1.5T? No way! That is why they say: fallow manufacturers recommended OCI.
With VW, BMW etc they guarantee that oil that carries their approval will do certain mileage in that market.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.


In the context of a slogan on the side of an oil can, extended use and extended drain are more marketing terms for a particular brand of oil.

When you use it in the context of a builder approval it refers to a specific set of tests that oil has to pass to be approved for a particular engines service interval.

MB, BMW and VW all have their own long drain service intervals requiring the correct "longlife" oil but, they each have their own performance requirements (even if they are fairly similar to each other).

In my opinion, there are two things to concentrate on when choosing an oil.

1. Choose an oil that matches the viscosity recommended by the car builder.

2. Choose an oil that matches the performance spec recommended by the car builder.

Everything else comes after these two.
 
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