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Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: kschachn] #5353979 02/18/20 09:34 PM
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bbhero Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
I don't know what to tell you except repeat that improved shear stability is part of the GM specification for DEXRON-VI. Whether that is "nuff said" is up to you.

Motor oil is not quite the same as ATF since most ICE do not cause shearing like an AT will. It is an important property of the ATF just like oxidation resistance.



Ahh I have thought I have seen UOAs where the oil was sheared in a motor... Like a VQ motor....

And it was lower viscosity from that... Not from fuel dilution.


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Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: Snagglefoot] #5354032 02/18/20 10:34 PM
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AC1DD Offline
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Yep. Dex Merc is what you want. Check the reference to Dex III on the back of the bottle. There are other brands as well such as Castrol.




Interesting that the Valvoline Dex/Merc on the back label recommends for Honda/Acura models from 1989 to 1995 since the Accord from 1996-1997 has the exact same transmission as the 1994-1995 model, exactly the same in every way. Strange.

Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: TimN3QE] #5354077 02/19/20 12:20 AM
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GM originally came out and said the Dex lll in their manual transmissons (T56) was replaced by Dex VI. Then they figured out that the viscosity drop from 7.5 to 5.8 wasn't all that acceptable. And they came out with another fluid with a viscosity >7.0 just for the old manual transmissions....basically a Dex lll with a few extra additives. In my older Lincolns originally designed on Dex III, they get the Mercon V which is also >7.0. I won't use Dex VI in those. It takes probably 15-20K miles for that Mercon V to shear down to Dex VI specs. Synthetic Mobil 1 ATF is another one that still basically meets/exceeds original Dex III specs. And that is recommended by Tremec in the T56's.

Last edited by 69GTX; 02/19/20 12:21 AM.

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Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: TimN3QE] #5354114 02/19/20 02:01 AM
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Last edited by mattwithcats; 02/19/20 02:02 AM.

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Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: bbhero] #5354234 02/19/20 09:04 AM
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kschachn Online Content
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Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by kschachn
Motor oil is not quite the same as ATF since most ICE do not cause shearing like an AT will. It is an important property of the ATF just like oxidation resistance.
Ahh I have thought I have seen UOAs where the oil was sheared in a motor... Like a VQ motor....

And it was lower viscosity from that... Not from fuel dilution.

There's no way the relatively tiny oil molecules can shear under the mechanical forces in an engine or transmission, that's why monograde oils have superior performance in that regard. In a previous life I worked with an industrial process that used a ball mill to disperse carbon black in a polymer and solvent mixture. A ball mill produces extremely high shear and impact forces and we did see molecular cleaving of the polymers (much like VII) but never of the solvent which had a similar molecular weight and chain length as motor oil. It would take truly massive forces and temperatures to cleave a ~C25-50 hydrocarbon such as catalytic cracking. VII are much larger (~1,00,000+) long-chain, high molecular weight molecules which can be cleaved at relatively lower energy.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
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Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: mattwithcats] #5354239 02/19/20 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mattwithcats

I wonder what the shear stability requirements are for TES-295? Phillips says it is "high" resistance, likely due to a relative lack of VII.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: What happened to licensed ATF clones? [Re: TimN3QE] #5355092 02/20/20 06:17 AM
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This is why I use Mercon V (M1 ATF) in my vehicles with Dex III requirements:

https://i1.wp.com/pqia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/ATFViscSpecs.jpg?ssl=1

Edit: Mercon and Dex III were, basically, interchangeable in the 90's.

Last edited by ka9mnx; 02/20/20 06:21 AM.

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