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What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation #5353844 02/18/20 06:29 PM
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wemay Offline OP
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It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg 2.0TSI: VW 508.00 0W-20+VW o.filter+Fram CA9711 a.filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell RGT 5W-30+H/K o.filter+NAPA 9670 a.filter
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5353854 02/18/20 06:38 PM
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blufeb95 Offline
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Isn't that BMW's certification, I guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay to get them certified by BMW.

Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: blufeb95] #5353860 02/18/20 06:47 PM
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wemay Offline OP
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Originally Posted by blufeb95
Isn't that BMW's certification, I guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay to get them certified by BMW.


Is it? I'm not sure. VW508.00 oils are LL as well. Maybe others too.


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg 2.0TSI: VW 508.00 0W-20+VW o.filter+Fram CA9711 a.filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell RGT 5W-30+H/K o.filter+NAPA 9670 a.filter
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5353864 02/18/20 06:51 PM
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MParr Offline
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Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I’m sure there are other things involved.


2019 VW Tiguan SE 2.0 TSI Now: Castrol Pro OE LL IV 0W20 & OE VW
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Kendall GT-1 Max 5W30 FS & NAPA Gold 1348
2014 F-150 4x4 Now: Pro DS 5W20 & Motorcraft FL-500s
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: MParr] #5353869 02/18/20 06:58 PM
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wemay Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I’m sure there are other things involved.


Thanks. That may well be the long and short of it. So maybe being low SAPS plays into it.


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg 2.0TSI: VW 508.00 0W-20+VW o.filter+Fram CA9711 a.filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell RGT 5W-30+H/K o.filter+NAPA 9670 a.filter
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5353872 02/18/20 07:01 PM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by blufeb95
Isn't that BMW's certification, I guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay to get them certified by BMW.


Is it? I'm not sure. VW508.00 oils are LL as well. Maybe others too.

BMW has a number of oil specs. They all begin with 'LL', for example LL01, LL04, etc, but i'm guessing your question was about long life specs in general and not about these BMW specs in particular.


2002 530i   2015 Q5 3.0T   2018 Charger SRT
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5353905 02/18/20 07:47 PM
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wemay Offline OP
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Yes, exactly


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg 2.0TSI: VW 508.00 0W-20+VW o.filter+Fram CA9711 a.filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell RGT 5W-30+H/K o.filter+NAPA 9670 a.filter
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5353926 02/18/20 08:17 PM
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MParr Offline
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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I’m sure there are other things involved.


Thanks. That may well be the long and short of it. So maybe being low SAPS plays into it.

That’s part of it. The level of SAPS has a lot to do with the contamination of DPF systems and catalytic converters.


2019 VW Tiguan SE 2.0 TSI Now: Castrol Pro OE LL IV 0W20 & OE VW
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Kendall GT-1 Max 5W30 FS & NAPA Gold 1348
2014 F-150 4x4 Now: Pro DS 5W20 & Motorcraft FL-500s
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5354070 02/18/20 11:55 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.

When LL (not BMW) oils were introduced in Europe, it was long before that was common practice here in the US. The designation long life stayed, and other markets also introduced oils capable of long drain intervals.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40+ MANN filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: edyvw] #5354405 02/19/20 11:50 AM
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wemay Offline OP
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.

When LL (not BMW) oils were introduced in Europe, it was long before that was common practice here in the US. The designation long life stayed, and other markets also introduced oils capable of long drain intervals.


So it's just an equivalent to the M1AP EdgeEP stuff then?


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg 2.0TSI: VW 508.00 0W-20+VW o.filter+Fram CA9711 a.filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell RGT 5W-30+H/K o.filter+NAPA 9670 a.filter
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5354434 02/19/20 12:31 PM
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kschachn Offline
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...

Last edited by kschachn; 02/19/20 01:01 PM. Reason: Changed my mind.

1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: MParr] #5354542 02/19/20 02:37 PM
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TheIceStormof06 Offline
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Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I’m sure there are other things involved.


So what is the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6? What are those standards about?
Also, you forgot to include 0W-30 grade in the 504.00 mix.


‘19 VW Atlas V6 (Pennzoil PP Euro LX 0W-30)
'17 Acura MDX SH-AWD (Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 & Fram Ultra Synthetic Filter)
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: TheIceStormof06] #5354570 02/19/20 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I’m sure there are other things involved.


So what is the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6? What are those standards about?
Also, you forgot to include 0W-30 grade in the 504.00 mix.



NOX, CO, PM etc.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-emissions-standards/


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: TheIceStormof06] #5354607 02/19/20 03:53 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by MParr
Wemay
I believe it has something to do with European emission standards. 5W30 504.00/507.00 are usually LL03 and meet euro standards 5 standards and 0W20 LL IV 508.00/509.00 meets euro standards 6. I’m sure there are other things involved.


So what is the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6? What are those standards about?
Also, you forgot to include 0W-30 grade in the 504.00 mix.

Euro5 are combination of emission standards and fuel quality standards. Fuel in Euope is of much better quality than here, which allows long drain intervals.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40+ MANN filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: What if any requirements for Long Life (LL) designation [Re: wemay] #5354613 02/19/20 03:57 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
It's pretty common place to see the "LL" on some long drain oils. But Mobil1 AP and Castrol Edge EP are for extended use yet don't have that designation.

When LL (not BMW) oils were introduced in Europe, it was long before that was common practice here in the US. The designation long life stayed, and other markets also introduced oils capable of long drain intervals.


So it's just an equivalent to the M1AP EdgeEP stuff then?

Not really.
First of all, European manufacturers have approval process. They guarantee that oil that is approved can do long drain.
Second, long drain is specific to market. VW (for example) is recommending intervals based on specifics of that market. In the US it is shorter than in Europe due to fuel quality etc.
What you have in the US when it come to oils like Castrol EP etc. is pure marketing. Some oils might be long drain in certain application, while in other applications are not. But, we do not know that. Can Castrol guarantee that EP will do 20,000 miles in Honda 1.5T? No way! That is why they say: fallow manufacturers recommended OCI.
With VW, BMW etc they guarantee that oil that carries their approval will do certain mileage in that market.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40+ MANN filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
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