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Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: Cdn17Sport6MT] #5350071 02/14/20 04:39 PM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
At the price of the toyota stuff, Id be putting Pennzoil Syncromesh in there.

or* a low viscosity gear oil



I have heard that GM's Synchromesh FM (friction modified) would be a slightly better choice for cold ambients due to more synthetic oil content.

* presuming you meant "or" rather than "of"...?


Sorry typing too fast and blind for proofreading smile

FOR a low viscosity gear oil.

IDK how well it does in hypoid transaxles though.

I wish econobox manufacturers didn't combine the final drive with the gearbox -

but we can imagine consideration of cost and packaging in a transverse application.


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#8 60864mi-Subaru Idemitsu 0W20 + SOA Filter
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5350630 02/15/20 10:09 AM
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If you're talking Subaru - I think you've got major 90 degree direction-of-drive changes using ring and pinion (hypoid) type gears... cuz you have a fore/aft oriented engine - but most straight-gut transverse engine front wheel drive cars do not employ that gear-type... except for inside the differential-pumpkin... minor gears. So the latter do not need GL-5 EP (hi sulfur) lubricants. I see therefore no conflicts... with use of GL-4 for the latter... synchro-friendly.

Last edited by Cdn17Sport6MT; 02/15/20 10:11 AM.

Mazda6 GX (Sport in the 'States), 6MT, 2017
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), 1985
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr. in the 'States), A/T, 1997
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, 1999
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, 1979
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: Cdn17Sport6MT] #5350853 02/15/20 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
If you're talking Subaru - I think you've got major 90 degree direction-of-drive changes using ring and pinion (hypoid) type gears... cuz you have a fore/aft oriented engine - but most straight-gut transverse engine front wheel drive cars do not employ that gear-type... except for inside the differential-pumpkin... minor gears. So the latter do not need GL-5 EP (hi sulfur) lubricants. I see therefore no conflicts... with use of GL-4 for the latter... synchro-friendly.


In the Subaru system, the transmission shares a sump with the hypoid differential so it needs a GL-5 fluid with GL-4 type MTL friction modifieers, which is why the older Super-S was rated GL-5/GL-4.

In most transaxles spiders gears serves as the differential so therefore do not need GL-5 additive systems, which is why most other brands of transaxles can use a GL-4 rated MTF with AW additives.

Quote
GL-5 differential fluids contain Extreme Pressure additives for highly loaded pinion to ring gears. MTL lubricants contain Anti-Wear additives because the gear sets are not as highly loaded as hypoid differentials and contain friction modifiers for synchronizer assemblies. and differential lubes are higher in viscosity than their MTL counterparts of the same grade.

MTL's with GL-4 ratings contain specific AW and FM additives, and base oil viscosities suited to MT's.

GL-5/MT1 lubricants contain higher viscosity base oils and EP additives for high loads.

Whether it be a GL-5 differential fluid or MTF's, they all contain buffering compounds in the form of metal deactivators and corrosion inhibitors, and contain additives packages suited for their respective application.


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...bology-and-lubrication-part-i#Post729255

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...bology-and-lubrication-part-i#Post729255

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...nual-transmission-lubricants#Post1231182


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: MolaKule] #5351078 02/15/20 08:09 PM
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Cdn17Sport6MT Offline
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Great info; very instructive! Thx MolaKule smile .


Mazda6 GX (Sport in the 'States), 6MT, 2017
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), 1985
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr. in the 'States), A/T, 1997
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, 1999
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, 1979
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: pleopard] #5351711 02/16/20 01:03 PM
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pleopard Offline OP
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So, just a quick update - the Toyota LV 75W is back in the transaxle as of Thursday. I picked up the car on Friday after leaving it with them overnight so they could test drive it cold back to back with the other identical car on the lot. Surprise surprise - “It shifted fine.” they say.

Anyway, the warm shifting characteristics seem to be a little better. I will reserve judgement on the cold shifting characteristics until I have a couple hundred kilometres with the new fluid. I assume this is the exact same fluid that the factory in Japan filled it with, but I guess I’ll never know for sure.

The shop manager is quite defensive and didn’t like being challenged. The service advisor was far more diplomatic and sympathetic to my concerns. He suggested a second opinion at another dealer might not be a bad idea. He even went so far as to suggest having a speciality transmission shop test it. However, as was mentioned, it’s the devil I know vs the devil I don’t and I’m quite apprehensive about letting the car get torn into.

Last edited by pleopard; 02/16/20 01:07 PM.
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: pleopard] #5351735 02/16/20 01:31 PM
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Thanks for the update. We all make mistakes but the dealership made good on it. I would not worry at all you drove less than a week on it. If stuff like this happens well, I just laugh it off with the service manager but let them know I would like it corrected. It is better to be perceived as a good customer. The service manager is the one with the problem he has to eat the inventory and labor cost. I always say thanks for taking care of me too. You have another four years on the warranty.

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: wdn] #5351878 02/16/20 04:24 PM
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pleopard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by wdn
Thanks for the update. We all make mistakes but the dealership made good on it. I would not worry at all you drove less than a week on it. If stuff like this happens well, I just laugh it off with the service manager but let them know I would like it corrected. It is better to be perceived as a good customer. The service manager is the one with the problem he has to eat the inventory and labor cost. I always say thanks for taking care of me too. You have another four years on the warranty.


That’s a good policy. I always try to be professional and civil. It can be hard at times, but this is a good reminder. Thank you.

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: wdn] #5351919 02/16/20 05:04 PM
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MolaKule Offline
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Originally Posted by wdn
Thanks for the update. We all make mistakes but the dealership made good on it. I would not worry at all you drove less than a week on it. If stuff like this happens well, I just laugh it off with the service manager but let them know I would like it corrected. It is better to be perceived as a good customer. The service manager is the one with the problem he has to eat the inventory and labor cost. I always say thanks for taking care of me too. You have another four years on the warranty.


I test drive a new fluid for about 500 miles before I make a decision on the shift quality of an MTF.


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: MolaKule] #5351945 02/16/20 05:24 PM
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pleopard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by wdn
Thanks for the update. We all make mistakes but the dealership made good on it. I would not worry at all you drove less than a week on it. If stuff like this happens well, I just laugh it off with the service manager but let them know I would like it corrected. It is better to be perceived as a good customer. The service manager is the one with the problem he has to eat the inventory and labor cost. I always say thanks for taking care of me too. You have another four years on the warranty.


I test drive a new fluid for about 500 miles before I make a decision on the shift quality of an MTF.


I’ve driven nearly 200km (120 miles) with the car mostly at operating temp and I’m not optimistic. Out of those miles I’ve only had two cold starts, but you have to remember that I drove 9000km with the factory fluid. Changing it to an incorrect fluid and back to the correct fluid won’t magically fix matters unless the factory somehow managed to under fill the gearbox.

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: pleopard] #5352143 02/16/20 09:05 PM
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More thoughts - the car performs and shifts so well when it’s warm, that I’m compelled to believe nothing is wrong with my car.

I’m hoping the shift quality is improved when cold, and Ill find out over the next week, but maybe I’ll just become accustomed to dealing with it if nothing has changed

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: pleopard] #5352161 02/16/20 09:21 PM
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There are also other mtfrs' fluids to consider using. Redline's claim-to-fame is smooth shifting cold. So is BG's. If you have a modicum of space and four ramps you can do this yourself at little cost ... if you're so-inclined.


Mazda6 GX (Sport in the 'States), 6MT, 2017
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), 1985
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr. in the 'States), A/T, 1997
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, 1999
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, 1979
Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: Cdn17Sport6MT] #5352178 02/16/20 09:34 PM
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Cdn17, true... Very true.

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: pleopard] #5352832 02/17/20 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pleopard
More thoughts - the car performs and shifts so well when it’s warm, that I’m compelled to believe nothing is wrong with my car.

I’m hoping the shift quality is improved when cold, and Ill find out over the next week, but maybe I’ll just become accustomed to dealing with it if nothing has changed



But you mentioned that when you compared to the rental and your car was on the Toyota OEM original when you first got it, that the shifting wasn't the same.
Your vehicle had slight grinding resistance not just notchiness.

The reason the shop manager is defense is because he knows he hasn't done his job properly and should be called out on it too, to the dealer principal.

Why not take your car to another store and get their view on it? I would. Nothing to lose.

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: AC1DD] #5352943 02/17/20 06:01 PM
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pleopard Offline OP
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It wasn’t a rental - just an identical brand new car on the lot that they let me drive.

You’re correct. The other car shifted better than my car did with the original fluid. I’m just going to give it a few more days / a few more cold starts to fully assess how things are.

I can take it to another dealer and may do that - the issue is having to leave my car overnight again and needing a loaner. I’m not sure another dealer will let me do that without getting Toyota Canada involved.

Re: 2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil [Re: pleopard] #5352951 02/17/20 06:12 PM
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pleopard Offline OP
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Country Hills Toyota is also telling me it shifts fine when cold. This means one of two things - they’re outright lying to me or it really is normal for these Corolla manuals to be quite rough.

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