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Daytona 500 engine related question #5352115 02/16/20 08:37 PM
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OilUzer Offline OP
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I was watching Daytona 500 and one or 2 of the cars were steaming a little at one point.

1-
One of the announcers said not much air is getting in since they are drafting ...

I can understand this one.

2-
Later another guy said they tape off the grill or parts of it to go faster.

Is this for aerodynamics or for keeping the engine hot? it kind of contradicts #1

3-
Later they said the temperatures are dropping so the cars would be able to go faster.

Does this have to do with tires and the track and/or increased amount of oxygen? otherwise colder air is denser if we are talking aerodynamics and cooler engine temps (if any and/or significant) contradicts #2.

I can't connect some of the dots. Please help! LOL

Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352136 02/16/20 08:52 PM
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mk378 Online Content
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Closing off the grille makes the car more aerodynamic. They tape as much as they can without overheating the engine.

Cooler air is denser, meaning there will be more mass of oxygen in the cylinders for a given pressure and volume. Since there is no turbo or supercharger, the engine has to operate at atmospheric pressure.

Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352191 02/16/20 09:43 PM
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Vern_in_IL Offline
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Yup, that's why a corn dog wrapper getting sucked onto the radiator will totally ruin your day as a driver. wink

Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352197 02/16/20 09:51 PM
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JasonC Online Content
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Its that fine balance between just enough airflow and restriction. That is why you always see them cleaning the grille on every stop and either adding or removing tape. This new generation engine can withstand super high water temps much better than the older designs.


2012 Buick Verano 2.4
2006 Ford Mustang GT Convertible
Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352212 02/16/20 10:10 PM
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MrHorspwer Offline
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Great article with a bunch of video links about this very topic:

https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-reason-why-nascar-engines-run-so-hot-1835071544

Highlights:

Coolant temp is a product of how much air flows through the radiator and nothing else
Engines do not run a thermostat of any type
290 F is a totally normal coolant temperature; teams start pulling tape when coolant temps are above 300 F and adding tape when temps are below 280 F
Oil temps are 300+ F
Cooling systems are pressurized to 100 PSI
Qualifying is done with the radiator opening fully taped; 330 F during qualifying is typical
A cool down unit is plumbed to the car in between qualifying attempts to keep temps in check

Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352220 02/16/20 10:22 PM
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RDY4WAR Offline
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It's pretty crazy how they operate. The oil sump temp is ~280*F with a 60-75*F temperature rise through the bearings. The oil is a light 0w-20 / heavy 0w-16 (KV100 = ~7.5 cSt) that is mostly group III with a good bit of PAO/mPAO and POE to push the flash point higher and help it take the heat. It's also a low detergent oil (<500 ppm Ca) with Zn/P in the 800-1000 ppm range and Mo in the 1000-1800 ppm range.

The Sonny Bryant crankshafts for those engines is a true masterpiece. The machining is incredibly precise and smooth.


Last edited by RDY4WAR; 02/16/20 10:26 PM.

"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: RDY4WAR] #5352304 02/17/20 01:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,394
sloinker Online Shocked
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
It's pretty crazy how they operate. The oil sump temp is ~280*F with a 60-75*F temperature rise through the bearings. The oil is a light 0w-20 / heavy 0w-16 (KV100 = ~7.5 cSt) that is mostly group III with a good bit of PAO/mPAO and POE to push the flash point higher and help it take the heat. It's also a low detergent oil (<500 ppm Ca) with Zn/P in the 800-1000 ppm range and Mo in the 1000-1800 ppm range.

The Sonny Bryant crankshafts for those engines is a true masterpiece. The machining is incredibly precise and smooth.


I hear they run even lower viscosity oil for qualifying, only has to last a couple laps and from a near stone cold engine.


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Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: sloinker] #5352362 02/17/20 07:17 AM
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kstanf150 Online Content
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Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
It's pretty crazy how they operate. The oil sump temp is ~280*F with a 60-75*F temperature rise through the bearings. The oil is a light 0w-20 / heavy 0w-16 (KV100 = ~7.5 cSt) that is mostly group III with a good bit of PAO/mPAO and POE to push the flash point higher and help it take the heat. It's also a low detergent oil (<500 ppm Ca) with Zn/P in the 800-1000 ppm range and Mo in the 1000-1800 ppm range.

The Sonny Bryant crankshafts for those engines is a true masterpiece. The machining is incredibly precise and smooth.


I hear they run even lower viscosity oil for qualifying, only has to last a couple laps and from a near stone cold engine.


They may run an even lower viscosity oil for qualifying to gain a hp or two, but the engine they qualify with is same engine they race with. If they change engines then they start last. And also if you notice there’s a small cart looking box behind each race car while on pit road waiting to qualify, that’s a heater to keep the fluids up to normal operating range

Last edited by kstanf150; 02/17/20 07:18 AM.
Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352417 02/17/20 08:29 AM
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krismoriah72 Offline
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I havent watched NASCAR in awhile.. i used to enjoy it though. Are there even any chevy, ford, dodge or toyota parts on these vehicles or just sponsorship stickers?

Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: RDY4WAR] #5352442 02/17/20 08:46 AM
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Gebo Offline
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
It's pretty crazy how they operate. The oil sump temp is ~280*F with a 60-75*F temperature rise through the bearings. The oil is a light 0w-20 / heavy 0w-16 (KV100 = ~7.5 cSt) that is mostly group III with a good bit of PAO/mPAO and POE to push the flash point higher and help it take the heat. It's also a low detergent oil (<500 ppm Ca) with Zn/P in the 800-1000 ppm range and Mo in the 1000-1800 ppm range.

The Sonny Bryant crankshafts for those engines is a true masterpiece. The machining is incredibly precise and smooth.




Very interesting info. Thanks!

Do we know who makes their engine oil, transmission and differential fluid? Or the specs of the transmission and differential fluids?


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Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: Gebo] #5352549 02/17/20 10:26 AM
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RDY4WAR Offline
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Originally Posted by Gebo
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
It's pretty crazy how they operate. The oil sump temp is ~280*F with a 60-75*F temperature rise through the bearings. The oil is a light 0w-20 / heavy 0w-16 (KV100 = ~7.5 cSt) that is mostly group III with a good bit of PAO/mPAO and POE to push the flash point higher and help it take the heat. It's also a low detergent oil (<500 ppm Ca) with Zn/P in the 800-1000 ppm range and Mo in the 1000-1800 ppm range.

The Sonny Bryant crankshafts for those engines is a true masterpiece. The machining is incredibly precise and smooth.




Very interesting info. Thanks!

Do we know who makes their engine oil, transmission and differential fluid? Or the specs of the transmission and differential fluids?


Driven supplies the oils and fluids for about half the field.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: OilUzer] #5352564 02/17/20 10:41 AM
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A_Harman Offline
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
I was watching Daytona 500 and one or 2 of the cars were steaming a little at one point.

1-
One of the announcers said not much air is getting in since they are drafting ...

I can understand this one.

2-
Later another guy said they tape off the grill or parts of it to go faster.

Is this for aerodynamics or for keeping the engine hot? it kind of contradicts #1

3-
Later they said the temperatures are dropping so the cars would be able to go faster.

Does this have to do with tires and the track and/or increased amount of oxygen? otherwise colder air is denser if we are talking aerodynamics and cooler engine temps (if any and/or significant) contradicts #2.

I can't connect some of the dots. Please help! LOL



2. Lower aero drag from blocking off the radiator.

3. Lower track temperatures improves grip.


2008 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel/G56
1985 Z51 Corvette track car 355/6-speed
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel/NV4500+GV
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck 307/SM465
Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: MrHorspwer] #5352671 02/17/20 01:07 PM
Joined: May 2009
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FADEC Offline
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Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
Great article with a bunch of video links about this very topic:

https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-reason-why-nascar-engines-run-so-hot-1835071544

Highlights:

Coolant temp is a product of how much air flows through the radiator and nothing else
Engines do not run a thermostat of any type
290 F is a totally normal coolant temperature; teams start pulling tape when coolant temps are above 300 F and adding tape when temps are below 280 F
Oil temps are 300+ F
Cooling systems are pressurized to 100 PSI
Qualifying is done with the radiator opening fully taped; 330 F during qualifying is typical
A cool down unit is plumbed to the car in between qualifying attempts to keep temps in check

Didn't know a lot of that!! Thanks for sharing!

Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: krismoriah72] #5352772 02/17/20 03:02 PM
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faltic Offline
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Originally Posted by krismoriah72
I havent watched NASCAR in awhile.. i used to enjoy it though. Are there even any chevy, ford, dodge or toyota parts on these vehicles or just sponsorship stickers?



wonder that myself


--------------------------------
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Re: Daytona 500 engine related question [Re: faltic] #5353020 02/17/20 07:33 PM
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bdcardinal Offline
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Originally Posted by faltic
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
I havent watched NASCAR in awhile.. i used to enjoy it though. Are there even any chevy, ford, dodge or toyota parts on these vehicles or just sponsorship stickers?



wonder that myself


Certain body parts come from the manufacturers. The spoiler is a spec part from Richardson Racing Products. The Toyota engines are built by TRD, Ford engines by Roush Yates, and most of the Chevrolet engines by either Hendrick or ECR/RCR.


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