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Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? #5349567 02/14/20 05:29 AM
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Cheburashka Offline OP
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Hi guys !
Just wonder if somebody could share some opinions
What better Group III oil with a lot additive packages vs True synthetic Group IV or V oil ???
Which one is the best ? Does Additives in group III makes oil more worth then true synthetic ? If so why use real synthetic and waist a money ?


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Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349581 02/14/20 05:54 AM
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PimTac Offline
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Group IV and V oils have additives too. Is there a pure IV or V oil out there? Not likely.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349583 02/14/20 05:55 AM
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Cheburashka Offline OP
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confused
I thought that Group III have more additive to compensated all the downgrades ..

Last edited by Cheburashka; 02/14/20 05:56 AM.

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Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349585 02/14/20 06:06 AM
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Imp4 Offline
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The fact that you'll never notice the difference in using any of these products probably speaks the most to the quality of the products in general.


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349648 02/14/20 07:26 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Basically all modern vehicles are on some sort of long drain interval which by default requires a long life (aka synthetic) oil. All oils have some sort of ad pack and are a mixture of base stocks. For example 100% PAO (Group 4) would harden the seals in your engine and cause a leaks so other base oils added to combat that.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 02/14/20 07:29 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349710 02/14/20 08:30 AM
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buster Offline
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It's not black and white. There are many ways to make a good oil. Oils are made with up to 15 or more different components blended in a balanced formulation.


2019 Frontier Pro 4X - RGT 5w30
2019 Impreza Sport - OE fill
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349713 02/14/20 08:34 AM
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sloinker Offline
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I imagine a group lV/V utilizes little if an viscosity improver which will more easily shear over time in the non/quasi synthetics oils, there is probably little or no oxidation inhibitors used either in 100% synthetics. There would still be other add pack chemicals in group lV/V that would mimic group lll and lesser group oils. That being said, it appears that the chemistry and better non-synthetic base oils do just fine at a lower cost for most everyday applications as attested to by most on this board.


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Ravenol VMP 5W30
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI VMP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Red Line Blue Label 5W20
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Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349733 02/14/20 08:58 AM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheburashka
confused
I thought that Group III have more additive to compensated all the downgrades ..

That is not necessarily the case. You can't make broad generalizations like this.

In some cases, such as long drain intervals, the oil has to have robust base as well as have enough additives to make it through a long OCI.

Taking a cheap/inferior oil base and loading it up with additives will not make it last through a long OCI because even though the additives may still be there by the end of it, the base oil would have deteriorated.


2002 530i   2015 Q5 3.0T   2018 Charger SRT
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Quattro Pete] #5349761 02/14/20 09:32 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by Quattro Pete

Taking a cheap/inferior oil base and loading it up with additives will not make it last through a long OCI because even though the additives may still be there by the end of it, the base oil would have deteriorated.

You mean a pig with lipstick is still a 🐖? LOL

Some additives aren't cheap either, that can drive the cost of the finished product up. Plus many approvals require use of higher quality base oils. (Dexos for example).. You should be able to trust/lean on the certs and approvals a lube carries, it's really the only way you can be assured you're getting a quality lubricant. Reputable blenders and mfgs spend a lot of money on gaining those certs/approvals.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 02/14/20 09:33 AM.
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349773 02/14/20 09:41 AM
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OVERKILL Online Content
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Originally Posted by Cheburashka
confused
I thought that Group III have more additive to compensated all the downgrades ..


Group III and lower bases use higher volumes of PPD's to achieve the requisite cold temperature performance, something PAO doesn't require. However, typically the additive package and carrier used in a PAO-based lube will require the use of some volume of PPD's.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: OVERKILL] #5349839 02/14/20 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Group III and lower bases use higher volumes of PPD's to achieve the requisite cold temperature performance, something PAO doesn't require. However, typically the additive package and carrier used in a PAO-based lube will require the use of some volume of PPD's.


Overkill, since you brought it up about PPDs, are there any "telltales" to determine if a super-low PP is due to PPDs or PAOs? Just one oil for the question: Delo XLE 10W30, has a PP of like -51*, and then you get oils like PP etc that have PPs around -38*. Then obviously, something like Ravenol's DXG with a pour point in the -60s is due to PAO by their admission.

But on the synblends/Group IIIs, is there a way to tell PAO from PPD? I know it's probably not likely.


De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5349859 02/14/20 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Group III and lower bases use higher volumes of PPD's to achieve the requisite cold temperature performance, something PAO doesn't require. However, typically the additive package and carrier used in a PAO-based lube will require the use of some volume of PPD's.


Overkill, since you brought it up about PPDs, are there any "telltales" to determine if a super-low PP is due to PPDs or PAOs? Just one oil for the question: Delo XLE 10W30, has a PP of like -51*, and then you get oils like PP etc that have PPs around -38*. Then obviously, something like Ravenol's DXG with a pour point in the -60s is due to PAO by their admission.

But on the synblends/Group IIIs, is there a way to tell PAO from PPD? I know it's probably not likely.


A tell is usually a ridiculous low pour point, but an MSDS that shows PAO is usually a pretty good sign.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349933 02/14/20 12:49 PM
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benjy Offline
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oil blends are complicated for sure BUT DING-DING $$$$$ the pricepoint determines most. without question real synthetics are superior BUT again $$$. in extremes real synthetics are the norm + worth the $$$ but for average joe the fake synthetics will serve you well + if changed more often lesser oils are prolly almost as good. oils are tested + spec'd as new unused oils but as time + miles are put on EVERYTHING changes + with many DI engines degrading the oil extended changes as well as watery xx-20 oils are NOT a good choice + again not many keep their rides over a 100 thou !!

Re: Group III oil with additives vs Group IV! Which better ? [Re: Cheburashka] #5349980 02/14/20 01:50 PM
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LoneRanger Offline
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Group III for the win !! ontome



'19 F-150 2.7 twin turbo DI V6 .....(Motorcraft synblend 5W30 SN+)
'19 GMC Terrain 1.5 turbo DI I4....(Warren 0W20 1DexosGen2)
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