School me on a Jeep Grand Cherokee!??

[wdn]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Of all the Jeep models the Grand Cherokee has the most issues according to the site below:

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/


And if we break it down further, 2011 and 2014 models received a huge chunk of complaints, which is also when they originally released the entirely redesigned model (2011) and then gave them a pretty significant facelift/updated mechanicals (2014).


And the year after that 2015 is also one of the worst years they list, the top complaint is transmission issues. Four years into the redesign.

Quote
CarComplaints.com Notes: The 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee shows an early trend of transmission complaints. Most of the complaints are for rough shifting — things like jerking & hesitation when shifting gears.

The 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee also has the same transmission issues.


When we look at the 2017 Grand Cherokee its top complaints is also with transmission problems. Now we are talking about a late model car, one model year newer than what the JD Powers dependability survey tracks. That is the 4th year of the transmission that, as you mention was introduced in 2014.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Grand_Cherokee/2017/

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted by wdn
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Of all the Jeep models the Grand Cherokee has the most issues according to the site below:

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/


And if we break it down further, 2011 and 2014 models received a huge chunk of complaints, which is also when they originally released the entirely redesigned model (2011) and then gave them a pretty significant facelift/updated mechanicals (2014).


And the year after that 2015 is also one of the worst years they list, the top complaint is transmission issues. Four years into the redesign.

Quote
CarComplaints.com Notes: The 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee shows an early trend of transmission complaints. Most of the complaints are for rough shifting — things like jerking & hesitation when shifting gears.

The 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee also has the same transmission issues.


When we look at the 2017 Grand Cherokee its top complaints is also with transmission problems. Now we are talking about a late model car, one model year newer than what the JD Powers dependability survey tracks. That is the 4th year of the transmission that, as you mention was introduced in 2014.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Grand_Cherokee/2017/




Which is interesting since the 8 speed ZF they get is one of the best in the industry.

 

[Ws6]

Yup. Empirical data has been presented...and creative ways to disregard it abounded. Called it several pages ago.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/expert-reviews/2019-jeep-grand-cherokee-review



Compared to the midsize SUV segment, slightly more Grand Cherokee owners are men. J.D. Power data says 59% of the Jeep's owners are men, vs. 57% for all midsize SUVs. The Grand Cherokee's owners are slightly younger (53 years vs. 55 years) and are more affluent in terms of median annual household income ($125,708 vs. $116,411).

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/expert-reviews/powersteering-2017-toyota-4runner-review

According to J.D. Power research data, people who buy the Toyota 4Runner tend to be younger and more affluent when compared with the Midsize SUV segment. The median age of a 4Runner buyer is 50 years, compared with 56 years for the segment. The median annual household income of a 4Runner buyer is $120,750, compared with $113,384. Just as many women buy 4Runners as they do Midsize SUVs in general, at 41%.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by wdn
Regardless of what the 177 problem areas that JD Powers measures -- their survey questionaire is the same for all owners across all makes.

Every car maker gets a bite of the same apple.

They sell the raw data to all the car manufacturers, and charge plenty for it.

Jeep ranks 8th from the bottom. There's a reason for that, and why Jeep owners report 55% more problems than Toyota or Lexus owners.

I am not going to be the one to infer that Jeep owners are too dumb to pair an iPhone. Rather than to trivialize what JD Powers is measuring, since it asks the same survey questions of all owners, the hard question remains why do Jeep owners report so many problems?


It's actually a pretty safe assumption. Infotainment issues are a huge part of reported problems and was a major driver in reducing Ford's reliability figures because people didn't know how to work Sync.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by wdn


When we look at the 2017 Grand Cherokee its top complaints is also with transmission problems. Now we are talking about a late model car, one model year newer than what the JD Powers dependability survey tracks. That is the 4th year of the transmission that, as you mention was introduced in 2014.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Grand_Cherokee/2017/


Just going through those issues (there are 21 reported):

#21: sounds like it has the paddle shifters and he/she accidentally hit them. My dad did that when he borrowed my 2016 and was freaking out why it wouldn't go above 3rd.

#20: Lists 3.2L V6, the Grand Cherokee comes with the 3.6L. This is probably a Cherokee with the 9spd.

#19: Hesitation doesn't sound like a transmission issue, could be bad middle east gas as reported by Falcon_LS on here.

#18: Lists 3.2L V6, same as #20.

#17: Lists 3.2L V6, same as #20 and #18.

#16: Lists 3.2L V6, same as #20, #18 and #17

#15: Doesn't list the engine beyond V6

#14: Lists 3.2L V6, same as #20, #18, #17 and #16

#13: Sounds like a legit complaint, I would have expected the dealer to perform a full relearn and recalibration on it.

#12: Not really sure what is being said here, "transmission down"? Powertrain at least appears to be correct though.

#11: Lists 3.2L V6, same as #20, #18, #17, #16 and #14.

#10: First V8! But this is the EXACT same verbiage a #15:

#15:
Originally Posted by Carol from Newton, US
as I pulled away from a stop light at a local intersection on a city street, I noticed that the transmission wasn't shifting out of 1st gear. I continued to accelerate but it would not shift, so I took my foot off the gas and pulled to a stop at the side of the road. Without shutting the engine off or doing anything else, I decided to try again. This time all shifting felt and sounded normal. The next day I had a similar experience but this time it did finally shift but at a higher rpm than seemed normal.


#10:
Originally Posted by edprzybyla, New Berlin, US
as I pulled away from a stop light at a local intersection on a city street, I noticed that the transmission wasn't shifting out of 1st gear. I continued to accelerate but it would not shift so I took my foot off the gas and pulled to a stop at the side of the road. Without shutting the engine off or doing anything else, I decided to try again. This time all shifting felt and sounded normal. The next day I had a similar experience but this time it did finally shift but at a higher rpm than seemed normal.


So I'm going to call BS on both of those ones.

#9: Sounds like a legit problem. Also V6.

#8: Sounds like a legit problem. Also V6.

#7: Sounds like a legit problem. First legit V8

#6: Sounds like a legit problem. 2nd legit V8

#5. No idea what this guy is saying

#4. "hard downshifting" doesn't sound like a transmission problem (maybe software?) and the mileage (brand new with 13K miles on it???? post lists 10,000 miles) doesn't match but could be a legit issue I guess?

#3: Sounds like somebody hit the paddle shifters

#2: Another V6.

#1. Lists the 3.2L V6 again, same a #20, #18, #17, #16, #14 and #11. Also sounds like somebody hit the paddle shifters.


So, almost all of those are V6's and most of those list the wrong engine so they could be for the Cherokee with the problematic 9spd. The V6 point is noted because Chrysler in-housed a version of the ZF 8spd to back the V6 engines, but that's irrelevant if it's the wrong bloody vehicle. Only a couple sound like legitimate complaints and two of them are obvious frauds. Who QC's this stuff?

 

[GZRider]

This is true to an extent, almost every sports, GT and off-road capable vehicles perceived reliability decreases as they depreciate and thus get into the hands of owners that may not have the money to correctly and proactively maintain them.

 

[KrisZ]

It's quite a funny phenomenon when it comes to discussing vehicles.
On one hand, when it comes to maintenance, repair or even general car knowledge, it is commonly accepted that the vast majority of the owners are simply clueless about vehicles, never mind discuss more technical things.

On the other hand, give the same clueless people a survey, or ask them to give an account of issues, or simply look at what they buy the most and all of the sudden, as a collective, they become a highly reliable source of knowledge.

Similar to "give a 1000 monkeys a 1000 typewriters..." type of thinking.

 

[GZRider]

One of the best service managers I worked with back in the day insisted the 2012+ Hemi 5.7 was a very good engine with regular 5k oil changes using anything decent, but the 3.6 Pentastar left a lot to be desired when compared to the Toyota 2GR-FSE, Honda J 3.7 and the Nissan VQ's of that era. The weak spots of the v8 Grand Cherokee were mainly infotainment and random little electronic glitches, but nothing that would hamper drivability. Other then that just somewhat higher upkeep costs for the optional variable suspension which is approaching S class or LS460 levels of complicated. Brakes and rotors and calipers are pricy but no more then a fast sedan, the OEM ATF for all the newer ZF boxes is very very expensive. IF I had to get an FCA product (without [censored] or something [censored] adjacent in the name) it would be a v8 G.C.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by GZRider
One of the best service managers I worked with back in the day insisted the 2012+ Hemi 5.7 was a very good engine with regular 5k oil changes using anything decent, but the 3.6 Pentastar left a lot to be desired when compared to the Toyota 2GR-FSE, Honda J 3.7 and the Nissan VQ's of that era. The weak spots of the v8 Grand Cherokee were mainly infotainment and random little electronic glitches, but nothing that would hamper drivability. Other then that just somewhat higher upkeep costs for the optional variable suspension which is approaching S class or LS460 levels of complicated. Brakes and rotors and calipers are pricy but no more then a fast sedan, the OEM ATF for all the newer ZF boxes is very very expensive. IF I had to get an FCA product (without [censored] or something [censored] adjacent in the name) it would be a v8 G.C.


I'm curious to know what he/you meant by "leaves a lot to be desired" I think it's a great engine, its got decent torque and decent horsepower, and neither of mine have ate the exhaust manifold studs (v6 doesn't have them, you get what I mean) or a water pump.

Grand Cherokee and Durango got a 7 year, unlimited mileage water pump warranty extension because they kept failing, sometimes as soon as 8k miles, others would be lucky and get to 80-90k, most fell into the 30-60k bracket. Not scientific, just observations from being in the owners club on FB.

 

[doitmyself]

For those who rely heavily on JD Powers and Consumer Reports, here are some snippets of information from peer reviewed research of JDP vs. CR comparing American brands vs. Japanese Brands (in terms of perceived quality and brand image):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj0wv7cgcXnAhWRGs0KHWqlDrYQFjAKegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F275410375_Consumer_Perception_of_US_and_Japanese_Automobiles_A_Statistical_Comparison_via_Consumer_Reports_and_JD_Power_and_Associates_Data&usg=AOvVaw0jenXhu5A-WYM6iKepnxrN

quotes:
- scores of CR and JDP are not strongly correlated
- it is clear that there is work in the literature that cautions against reading too much into consumer satisfaction responses, as they appear to be affected by extraneous factors not directly related to customer satisfaction.
- questions have been raised about the impartiality and generality of data provided by CR and JDP
...........CR's reviewers are concentrated more on the coasts than in the heartland or the Deep South.
...........responses come from self-selected individuals.
...........JDP uses advertisements from its clients to ‘improve their own profile'. Thus it appears that there may be a symbiotic relationship between JDP and its clients,which may hamper objectivity;
...........the fact that JDP does not disclose data on very unfavourable rankings from consumers should be taken very seriously.......... as selective deletion of data, related to consumer perceptions, may lead to misleading forecasts.
...........The data from JDP did not yield satisfactory R2 (Regression Analysis) values for any of the cases. This was somewhat disappointing, but there is literature pointing to the fact that JDP is influenced by advertising (Noah, 1999)

Study the linked research paper for a better understanding. Korean and European manufacturers were not included.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by GZRider
One of the best service managers I worked with back in the day insisted the 2012+ Hemi 5.7 was a very good engine with regular 5k oil changes using anything decent, but the 3.6 Pentastar left a lot to be desired when compared to the Toyota 2GR-FSE, Honda J 3.7 and the Nissan VQ's of that era. The weak spots of the v8 Grand Cherokee were mainly infotainment and random little electronic glitches, but nothing that would hamper drivability. Other then that just somewhat higher upkeep costs for the optional variable suspension which is approaching S class or LS460 levels of complicated. Brakes and rotors and calipers are pricy but no more then a fast sedan, the OEM ATF for all the newer ZF boxes is very very expensive. IF I had to get an FCA product (without [censored] or something [censored] adjacent in the name) it would be a v8 G.C.


I'm curious to know what he/you meant by "leaves a lot to be desired" I think it's a great engine, its got decent torque and decent horsepower, and neither of mine have ate the exhaust manifold studs (v6 doesn't have them, you get what I mean) or a water pump.

Grand Cherokee and Durango got a 7 year, unlimited mileage water pump warranty extension because they kept failing, sometimes as soon as 8k miles, others would be lucky and get to 80-90k, most fell into the 30-60k bracket. Not scientific, just observations from being in the owners club on FB.
My grandmother has a 14' Grand a Caravan while my grandfather has a 14' Grand Cherokee.

Might be all the extra drivetrain, but the Grand Caravan is a lot peppier and responsive than the Grand Cherokee.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by wdn
Regardless of what the 177 problem areas that JD Powers measures -- their survey questionaire is the same for all owners across all makes.

Every car maker gets a bite of the same apple.

They sell the raw data to all the car manufacturers, and charge plenty for it.

Jeep ranks 8th from the bottom. There's a reason for that, and why Jeep owners report 55% more problems than Toyota or Lexus owners.

I am not going to be the one to infer that Jeep owners are too dumb to pair an iPhone. Rather than to trivialize what JD Powers is measuring, since it asks the same survey questions of all owners, the hard question remains why do Jeep owners report so many problems?


It's actually a pretty safe assumption. Infotainment issues are a huge part of reported problems and was a major driver in reducing Ford's reliability figures because people didn't know how to work Sync.

SYNC sucks. My girlfriend has a 2016 Titanium trim EDGE. SYNC 3. It has already died (screen black, nothing doing.) which really sucks as that takes out your climate control, everything. It's not an uncommon failure, either, and repair is about $1K.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by GZRider
This is true to an extent, almost every sports, GT and off-road capable vehicles perceived reliability decreases as they depreciate and thus get into the hands of owners that may not have the money to correctly and proactively maintain them.

You're right, that's why 4Runner, LandCruiser, Lexus GX, Tacoma, etc. all have terrible retained value and don't last very long.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by GZRider
One of the best service managers I worked with back in the day insisted the 2012+ Hemi 5.7 was a very good engine with regular 5k oil changes using anything decent, but the 3.6 Pentastar left a lot to be desired when compared to the Toyota 2GR-FSE, Honda J 3.7 and the Nissan VQ's of that era. The weak spots of the v8 Grand Cherokee were mainly infotainment and random little electronic glitches, but nothing that would hamper drivability. Other then that just somewhat higher upkeep costs for the optional variable suspension which is approaching S class or LS460 levels of complicated. Brakes and rotors and calipers are pricy but no more then a fast sedan, the OEM ATF for all the newer ZF boxes is very very expensive. IF I had to get an FCA product (without [censored] or something [censored] adjacent in the name) it would be a v8 G.C.

The problems I ran into were quality issues. The rubber rotted in the suspension (this was a 2010, in 2014, mind you...my 1988 Mustang GT was still doing fine...). The seals in the transmission leaked. The water pump died. The chip's circuit-board in the transmission PCM broke so FCA put out a terrible repair called N23 which gave everyone nightmares. Stuff like that. Not "Oh, it has a bad such and such design".

 

[GZRider]

The first years of the Pentastar had an issue with weak hydraulic lifters, valves and other misc head issues during the warranty period, hence his opinion of them. I have read the later ones were better (15 or 16+) which is right when I left that part of the industry so I don't have any personal experience with them.

 

[GZRider]

"Almost every" You can throw the FJ and the LC Prado on the list of unicorns but my statement is still true.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by GZRider
"Almost every" You can throw the FJ and the LC Prado on the list of unicorns but my statement is still true.

Is it? What Japanese offroad capable/advertised vehicle plummets in value? What Japanese sports car doesnt retain value well? What japanese luxury/GT vehicle doesn't retain value well? THAT would be a unicorn.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by GZRider
The first years of the Pentastar had an issue with weak hydraulic lifters, valves and other misc head issues during the warranty period, hence his opinion of them. I have read the later ones were better (15 or 16+) which is right when I left that part of the industry so I don't have any personal experience with them.


Ah yes, I remember those, they extended the warranty on them to 10 years/150,000 miles for 2011-2013 models.

 

[VNTS]

I'll throw my 2 cents from an actual owner

Have he 2015 Overland, Hemi ZF 8HP70 with the quadra lift. Have the QD2 with the ELSD.

IMHO if your looking for a solid feeling well built mid size Unibody SUV with north south drive train, they are the only game in town.

Only issue I had was the water pump on the Hemi started to weep at 50K, was covered under the warranty.
everything has held up well. Have the pano roof, heated/cooled seats, 8.4 Uconnect, power motorized and heated steering wheel, all the goodies, no issues. Still on original brakes.

Have the 3.6s and 8HP50s in the Wranglers, have been fine but too new to tell. Per the cracking on the oil filter housings, they changed the design in 2016, so it seems to impact the earlier ones.

I might pick up another WK2, waiting to see what the WLs look like first when they come out next year.

 

[Huie83]

I will tell you that in my experience, Jeep's are very hit or miss on quality. You may get a good one, you may get a bad one... I've had Jeeps that were somewhat reliable until about 130K, then they fell apart and were too costly to repair. A coworker of mine is going through the same thing. He has a 2013 GC Overland. at 70K it ate a camshaft and needed a new engine, it has 170K on it now. The the past year he's replaced the radiator, AC condenser, PS cooler, blend door motor, transfer case motor, two coil packs, water pump, power steering pump, Now his air suspension has a leak so it's in low rider mode, not a cheap fix...

My girlfriend's dad has a 2017 GC with the 3.6. Has around 60K on it with no issues at all yet.

Like others have said, they say " its a Jeep thing" for a reason, you'll either love it, hate it or have a love-hate relationship. Every Jeep I've had has been a love-hate relationship. I love the driving dynamics of the GC, but have hated how much upkeep they were.