Dreaded Ford 3.5L / 3.7L water pump - How to extend the life.

The lawsuit overs Ford Taurus 2008 - present. Ford Edge 2015 - present, Ford Flex 2009 - present. Present as in "Ford has still not addressed the defect in its current vehicles".

Regardless the service life of the water pump, this replaceable, common engine part destroys the engine, before the end of the useful life of the engine. The lawsuit was filed not that long ago, late 2018.
 
Originally Posted by dblshock
I like to look at the Flex, but jezus god what a mess.


Yeap
Got a co-worker looking at a $1500 water pump right now !

I'm a huge Ford guy but if I owned one of these 3.5's I'd sell or trade tomorrow !!
 
Originally Posted by wdn
How are you telling a guy who lives directly on Lake Erie to be putting 15W40 tractor oil in his car engine, in February? That is completely nuts. The car is spec'ed for a 5W-20. OP is not having timing chain issues either he is asking about replacing the Ford coolant, to possibly extend its life, hence the cooling forum. Bearings and seals wear out pumps not the timing chain, it was just Ford's dumb design to locate it so it's major surgery to get at it. There is an owner class action lawsuit against for because it can cost thousands to replace a $200 pump.


That's pretty nuts ! I wouldn't hesitate to put a full syn 5w-30 or 5w-40 in though.

It's absolutely true that this CAFE oil 0w-16 0w-20, 5w-20 is ONLY used in the USA and Canada for the most part, when you look at RoW and see the same engines used in
Northern Europe they usually spec 5w-30 or 5w-40 full syn oils.

I would NEVER use anything less than 5w-30 full synthetic oil in any current engine on offer US or RoW.
 
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Originally Posted by AC1DD

I would NEVER use anything less than 5w-30 full synthetic oil in any current engine on offer US or RoW.

FWIW, Honda was shipping out all their cars made in Japan with 0W-20 oil since the early 2000s. The Ford 3.5/3.7 never made it beyond the US/Canada/Mexico/Brazil, maybe to Japan for the Mazda CX-9. Pretty sure Ford validated the engine for 5W-20.
 
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by AC1DD

I would NEVER use anything less than 5w-30 full synthetic oil in any current engine on offer US or RoW.

FWIW, Honda was shipping out all their cars made in Japan with 0W-20 oil since the early 2000s. The Ford 3.5/3.7 never made it beyond the US/Canada/Mexico/Brazil, maybe to Japan for the Mazda CX-9. Pretty sure Ford validated the engine for 5W-20.



That maybe the case, but they won't tell you about the wear factor after a decade or so of normal use in the field. Why? Because there is probably more wear compared to the same exact engine using a 5w-30 or 5w-40 full synthetic of course.
 
The lawsuits alleges that the pump should last 150,000 miles and that this is supported by Ford's own maintenance schedule that doesn't list a water pump replacement in the first 150,000 miles.

Of course we know hardly any maintenance schedules list a water pump replacement. So there you have it, even the lawsuit does not insist on the water pump making it past 150,000 miles.
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This stuff about 0W20 just being CAFE oil for US is not quite true though. For example on one of the newest engine designs on the market the Subaru FB20 direct injected 2.0, is spec'ed for 0W20 synthetic, in Japan, USA, Australia and in every other country.
 
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
The lawsuits alleges that the pump should last 150,000 miles and that this is supported by Ford's own maintenance schedule that doesn't list a water pump replacement in the first 150,000 miles.

Of course we know hardly any maintenance schedules list a water pump replacement. So there you have it, even the lawsuit does not insist on the water pump making it past 150,000 miles.
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As opposed to Ford who probably designs their average internal water pumps to last 60,100 miles.

Many maintenance schedules say inspect cooling system, hoses and connections every 30,000 miles, next to impossible on those Fords. The new Subarus for example don't even change the coolant until 137,500.
 
Originally Posted by rideahorse
Its not a coolant issue. Its a thin oil issue. This syn oil does not lube the timing chains like a good 15w-40 HDEO oil will. Chains do not like thin syn oils. When the chains get stretched they put undo stress on the water pump bearings. Vibration and harmonics. Thin syn oil is dry and has no body to it to keep the chains from premature wearing. There is nothing wrong with the design. Just look at Europe and see that they spec a lot thicker oil for the same engines. The EPA is making the car manufacturers do this for the last bit of mileage and sacrificing engine life. My 08 3.5 Edge has 235,000 miles on it and just put the first water pump in it. $ 1,600 at Ford dealership and the timing chains are still good. Its had HDEO 15w-40 conventional oil in it since it was new.



I smell major b.s. with this comment
 
Originally Posted by dlundblad
The 3.5 Ecoboost requires 5w30. Does the NA 3.5 require a 5w20?


Whilst those viscosities may be recommended in the OM, they are not Required. Climate dictates viscosity requirement.

Look at the OM for the rest of the world, without CAFE considerations.
 
^ I wouldn't use that argument if trying to get warranty repair done. It is a requirement for that period, not subject to second guessing what is best by owner. The US owners manuals for the 3.5L I've seen, do not have any chart for temperature, just that ONE 5W-20 spec for NA 3.5L.

At whatever point you place the burden of repair costs on yourself, before or after the warranty would have lapsed, is when you mention using other than 5W-20W in the NA 3.5L. Otherwise, first they'd have to have a policy that you provide receipts/etc proof of oil used, and then prove that contributed to the fault. There ARE places that require proof of timely and correct oil changes.
 
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Such a [censored]. I have the 3.7 in a 2009 Mazda. Only 55k miles.
I am increasing the viscosity of oil to experiment and see how heavy I can go. Was 5w20 or 5w30 most of its life, then 10w30 for this winter in So Cal.
Next up is 15w40 this summer.

Got to see if the VVT acts up with the thicker oil.
 
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
It brings us to the question: Just how long should the accessories last? Only 2 % of vehicles are on the road past 200,000 miles. I've heard from other sources that it is 4%, so I'll give folks the benefit of the doubt and call it 5%. So what's an "early failure" ? Most cars leave their original owner at 6 years or under. That might average out to 120,000 miles. ( alternate data is welcome.)

I wonder what is the average mileage is when that 3.5/3.7 water pump piles up. The OP's water pump made it to 175,000 miles. It's too bad it costs so much to repair but we all know the manufacturers do not support the 2nd owner.
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This was probably Fords thinking.
 
I'm going to post this link that "Metroplex" contributed to another thread. It's worth it to get a viewpoint from a guy who cut a couple of the Ford water pumps apart. You can draw your own conclusion but he believes the water pump bearings were indeed lubricated with engine oil and also that the seals on the impeller side of the pump deteriorated. He mused that perhaps keeping your coolant in good shape with changes might help the seals last longer. I'm just the messenger. Thanks to Metroplex for digging up the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrmH4S2_ZOI&feature=youtu.be

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I'm with you on the thin oil issue. I live in Texas though so there's that. People who cold start in below 0 F may want to stick with the owners manual recommendation.
 
Was going to post a thread on this but will just mention it here:. what is the deal with that pink alcohol based RV/power equipment coolant that is strictly prohibited for cars/trucks? Is it simply a fire hazard issue?
 
Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Was going to post a thread on this but will just mention it here:. what is the deal with that pink alcohol based RV/power equipment coolant that is strictly prohibited for cars/trucks? Is it simply a fire hazard issue?

RV antifreeze is propylene glycol based, not "alcohol" (yes it has hydroxyl groups). And it has no corrosion inhibitors or at least ones unsuitable for automotive use.
 
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