2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by oldhp
Has anybody checked the clutch for full disengagement when clutch pedal is pushed in???

+1...


Yep, I almost didn't think about that but you could be correct. My advise to the OP would be to try another steal....errr dealership.
 
I have come to accept, in 45 years of driving, that manual transmission vehicles ALWAYS feel different and more "notchy" when cold vs. at transmission / transaxle normal operating temp. I don't care what car. Some are really unhappy cold, some less so. They all shift with more effort and more "raggedly" cold. If someone tells me their trans feels the same hot vs. cold I say politely "you're just not sensitive to those kinds of things". I accept that a manual trans veh. has to be "nursed" to operating temp from cold... and it REALLY does in the prairies!
 
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by pleopard
I've switched from being a loyal VW owner to a Toyota owner. My car is a 2019 Corolla Hatchback XSE with 10,000km, made in Japan. My hope, is that I will find better reliability in this car than with the VWs I owned in the past.


How odd. My 300,000 mile Jetta still shifts like butter.

VW makes good transaxles. Relatively few of 'em are rough-shifting.


Yes, I had a 2006 Jetta 5spd TDI. The shift quality was one of the best characteristics of the car. Super crisp and engaging.
 
Do consider Redline MT-LV 75W or MTL 75W80 for its very low Brookfield Viscosity .
 
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Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by pleopard
I've switched from being a loyal VW owner to a Toyota owner. My car is a 2019 Corolla Hatchback XSE with 10,000km, made in Japan. My hope, is that I will find better reliability in this car than with the VWs I owned in the past.

Sadly, I've been experiencing some less-than-refined shifting characteristics.

- Shifting from 1st to 2nd in cold weather is rough (on the verge of grinding). I've had a couple rough shifts even into 3rd.
- Shifting into 1st is generally impossible unless moving no faster than a walking pace.
- Occasionally, shifting into 1st even from a stop isn't possible unless I roll the car in neutral a couple inches or engage 2nd before trying for 1st again.

I took it in a couple times and they were unable to replicate the concern. However, they changed the transmission fluid in an attempt to improve the shift feel for me.

Here's where I think they may have gone wrong.

The manual calls for: "TOYOTA Genuine Manual Transmission Gear Oil LV GL-4 75W" or equivalent"

They stated that they "drained the Toyota 75W85 and put in Mobil1 75W90". First of all, I confirmed that Mobil doesn't have a GL-4 75W90 and Mobil states they don't have a gear oil recommended for my car. They even went so far as to say that they do not recommend using their 75W90 in my vehicle. Secondly, why are they saying they drained a 75W85? Other Toyota transmissions (such as the 2019 Tacoma manual) specifically call for a 75W85 GL-4), but not mine.

However, curiously, I've noticed absolutely zero difference since they changed the fluid.

I'm taking the car back in on Thursday and will be driving a new Corolla Hatchback 6MT to compare the shift behaviour. I find it hard to believe what I'm experiencing is normal. In all other manuals I've driven, they were very smooth. This one is ultra notchy, rough, and crude.


Buying a brand spanking new 5mt or 6mt car sometimes can be a crap-shoot... like it was on my '17 Mazda6. 5km delivery km's. No test-pilots... Still notchy 1st and 2nd gears. I suggest you review Molakule's post on equiv-to-75W products to change to a fluid that might improve matters. You might see if BG's Synchro Shift II fits the bill as 75W as it apparently is very smooth. Also, to some degree, you may need to accept it - a 'wee bit - and employ some workarounds like I do. You live in Calgary; if the car is left outside overnight park it so you face a down-gradient when you start in the AM. Start in second, with few revs, and pause longer at the friction point. Do 2nd gear starts for the first few shifts of the day. Double-clutch downshift at 'real low speeds and don't attempt to get into 1st till the transaxle warms up.

Also, don't use anything but GL-4. Do not use GL-4/GL-5 dual rated... and don't use GL-5 at all!



Thank you for this. Gives me a lot of good things to consider. Not sure about the 2nd gear starts. That's a lot of clutch slippage. When I'm moving 5-10km/h and it won't shift into 1st, I'm forced to do that, but otherwise avoid it.
 
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by oldhp
Has anybody checked the clutch for full disengagement when clutch pedal is pushed in???

+1...



I don't think the Toyota dealer techs checked that, but it's a great point, although, when the car is warm, getting into second is a lot smoother and getting into 4th through 6th is no problem.
 
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I have come to accept, in 45 years of driving, that manual transmission vehicles ALWAYS feel different and more "notchy" when cold vs. at transmission / transaxle normal operating temp. I don't care what car. Some are really unhappy cold, some less so. They all shift with more effort and more "raggedly" cold. If someone tells me their trans feels the same hot vs. cold I say politely "you're just not sensitive to those kinds of things". I accept that a manual trans veh. has to be "nursed" to operating temp from cold... and it REALLY does in the prairies!



I've driven only manual passenger vehicles for almost 30 years now and since the 1980s the gear oils have made vast improvements since then. In the 1980s
there weren't any full synthetic light weight gear oils around for the typical car owner and sure enough in the winter the 80w dino GL-4 oil used in most of my cars made shifting feel like you were stirring wet cement. Today there are plenty of excellent full synthetic 75w GL-4 gear oils that even in minus 30 F conditions will feel great and don't suffer at all.

If a manual shifter in a modern car (1990s and later) is notchy it's almost definitely because it isn't adjusted right or the fluid is incorrect for the application.
The problem today is that so few shops work on these cars (in North America) that the techs don't understand what the problem might be or how to remedy it.
You really have to look hard for that rare mechanic that knows..they are rare in the US/Canada today. Of course good mechanics in general are rare as hens teeth in the US and Canada now.
 
Originally Posted by pleopard
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by oldhp
Has anybody checked the clutch for full disengagement when clutch pedal is pushed in???

+1...



I don't think the Toyota dealer techs checked that, but it's a great point, although, when the car is warm, getting into second is a lot smoother and getting into 4th through 6th is no problem.


That's a good point, it will be interesting to see what you experience when you drive the similar manual loaner car. If that one is good you know you have a mechanical problem.
I hope you follow up!
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I have come to accept, in 45 years of driving, that manual transmission vehicles ALWAYS feel different and more "notchy" when cold vs. at transmission / transaxle normal operating temp. I don't care what car. Some are really unhappy cold, some less so. They all shift with more effort and more "raggedly" cold. If someone tells me their trans feels the same hot vs. cold I say politely "you're just not sensitive to those kinds of things". I accept that a manual trans veh. has to be "nursed" to operating temp from cold... and it REALLY does in the prairies!



I've driven only manual passenger vehicles for almost 30 years now and since the 1980s the gear oils have made vast improvements since then. In the 1980s
there weren't any full synthetic light weight gear oils around for the typical car owner and sure enough in the winter the 80w dino GL-4 oil used in most of my cars made shifting feel like you were stirring wet cement. Today there are plenty of excellent full synthetic 75w GL-4 gear oils that even in minus 30 F conditions will feel great and don't suffer at all.

If a manual shifter in a modern car (1990s and later) is notchy it's almost definitely because it isn't adjusted right or the fluid is incorrect for the application.
The problem today is that so few shops work on these cars (in North America) that the techs don't understand what the problem might be or how to remedy it.
You really have to look hard for that rare mechanic that knows..they are rare in the US/Canada today. Of course good mechanics in general are rare as hens teeth in the US and Canada now.


Agreed. Well, I'll be test driving another car on the lot on Wednesday. It'll be somewhat cold out (-5C), so I'll be able to establish fairly quickly if it shifts better than mine. If it does, that indicates something is either mechanically faulty (synchros?) or not adjusted correctly. If it shifts the same, then it's either design or a poorly matched fluid for the conditions.
 
Originally Posted by pleopard


Agreed. Well, I'll be test driving another car on the lot on Wednesday. It'll be somewhat cold out (-5C), so I'll be able to establish fairly quickly if it shifts better than mine. If it does, that indicates something is either mechanically faulty (synchros?) or not adjusted correctly. If it shifts the same, then it's either design or a poorly matched fluid for the conditions.


Components mechanical fault or incorrectly adjustments of whatever surely isn't an issue when shift annoyance occurs at very low temperature as you encountered .
IMO, it is neither (mechanical) design per se .
I strongly believe It's basically fluid (behaviours) , inherent in almost ALL or most MTF's that behaves differently in differing operating conditions in one and the same manual transmission system , of which most MTF's manufacturers are yet to fully resolve .
As I suggested above, give Redline MT-LV 75W or MTL 75W80 a chance for it's very low Brookfield viscosity .
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT


Also, to some degree, you may need to accept it - a 'wee bit - and employ some workarounds like I do. You live in Calgary; if the car is left outside overnight park it so you face a down-gradient when you start in the AM. Start in second, with few revs, and pause longer at the friction point. Do 2nd gear starts for the first few shifts of the day. Double-clutch downshift at 'real low speeds and don't attempt to get into 1st till the transaxle warms up.



This is a brand new car with a modern synchromesh manual, not some crash box tractor tranny. You shouldn't need to do anything special to drive it, even when cold.

Step 1 is to drive a different manual Corolla, and see how it feels, then go from there.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT


Also, to some degree, you may need to accept it - a 'wee bit - and employ some workarounds like I do. You live in Calgary; if the car is left outside overnight park it so you face a down-gradient when you start in the AM. Start in second, with few revs, and pause longer at the friction point. Do 2nd gear starts for the first few shifts of the day. Double-clutch downshift at 'real low speeds and don't attempt to get into 1st till the transaxle warms up.



This is a brand new car with a modern synchromesh manual, not some crash box tractor tranny. You shouldn't need to do anything special to drive it, even when cold.

Step 1 is to drive a different manual Corolla, and see how it feels, then go from there.



Agree to differ. I have NEVER driven a car that doesn't feel a bit snatchy/ragged for those first few 1st - to - 2nd shifts of the day... or at the very least, a much harder to shift gear-lever-acdtion. I accept this, because I still like driving manual transmissions... but I would never suggest a Manual is in the same realm of development / relative "perfection" that a typical automatic is (for smoothness and lack of driver annoyance).

Related, I attach a reference to Molakule's treatise on Manual Transmission lubricants.... with the following hyperlink.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...nual-transmission-lubricants#Post5144795

You can gauge, roughly, where 75W rated oils are. The BG Synchro Shift II is a 'wee bit higher in viscosity at 100C than straight-up 75W... but you might find it good. Also, a previous poster suggested a Redline product that is thinner than the MTL (which is 75W-80).
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by pleopard


Thank you for this. Gives me a lot of good things to consider. Not sure about the 2nd gear starts. That's a lot of clutch slippage. When I'm moving 5-10km/h and it won't shift into 1st, I'm forced to do that, but otherwise avoid it.


The gearbox on my Mazda6 - a 6 speed - is so close-ratio that on a downgradient I start in 2nd, go to 4th, go to 6th. The slippage with 2nd gear starts is totally, totally dependent on how many revs you start with. Typically, I have it at barely a crack above idle... whether in 1st, or with 2nd gear starts. Yes, there is more slippage with the second gear start... but certainly not a whole lot at all. You want to see slippage: the Mark1 Lotus-Cortina... which could do 45MPH in first gear... It had a super-tall first gear... (and super-close 4 speed gearbox).

Anyways, I drive preserving my synchromesh... and that is why most times I double-clutch down.... but let's not start up that discussion about whether double-clutching is necessary (it'd be a deep rabbit-hole).
 
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Recently purchased a 2020 4 door corolla SE 6-speed and I have exact same feeling as OP does. It's embarrassing and annoying when driving in slow and heavy traffic and you need to down-shift to 1st gear! I've also test-driven a Jetta manual and it shifts way better.
 
Zeng, I have a strong feeling that you're right. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that not all customers would be complaining when driving their brand new cars in the cold. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I drive another identical car.

If that car is also a bit rough in the cold, I'll do some research on the Redline. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I have come to accept, in 45 years of driving, that manual transmission vehicles ALWAYS feel different and more "notchy" when cold vs. at transmission / transaxle normal operating temp. I don't care what car. Some are really unhappy cold, some less so. They all shift with more effort and more "raggedly" cold. If someone tells me their trans feels the same hot vs. cold I say politely "you're just not sensitive to those kinds of things". I accept that a manual trans veh. has to be "nursed" to operating temp from cold... and it REALLY does in the prairies!


Correct.

Also you don't downshift shift into first unless you are going really slow.

Sounds pretty normal.

But get that wrong fluid out of the transaxle.

And It will take a while to wear off the EP from the GL5

Maybe run a 10w30 SA for a couple weeks as a "rinse"

____________________________

You can run subcompact Honda MT lube through the Winter.
It will shift awesome.
Just be prepared to change it every 20k kms
_____________________________

Forget the dealer and go to an IDY to get lubed up.

[Linked Image]
 
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Originally Posted by Cellist
Recently purchased a 2020 4 door corolla SE 6-speed and I have exact same feeling as OP does. It's embarrassing and annoying when driving in slow and heavy traffic and you need to down-shift to 1st gear! I've also test-driven a Jetta manual and it shifts way better.


I guess this further suggests this specific concern may be normal. What about 1st to 2nd shifts when cold? Do you find that they're harder and rough?
 
Thanks for all of your responses. I'm beginning to feel a bit better that maybe my car is not defective. I don't consider myself an expert manual transmission driver, but I do consider myself reasonably experienced and I guess maybe the VW transmissions in the past spoiled me a bit. I simply don't recall them being so temperamental in the cold.

The other issue that bothers me however is the occasional inability to shift into 1st even from a stop. I have to roll the car a touch or shift into second first to get 1st engaged? Is that considered normal for some transmission?? This one is not temperature dependent.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by pleopard
Aeed. Well, I'll be test driving another car on the lot on Wednesday. It'll be somewhat cold out (-5C), so I'll be able to establish fairly quickly if it shifts better than mine. If it does, that indicates something is either mechanically faulty (synchros?) or not adjusted correctly. If it shifts the same, then it's either design or a poorly matched fluid for the conditions.


Make sure you drive it from bone-cold... i.e. ensure the lot boy hasn't warmed up the car first...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by pleopard
Aeed. Well, I'll be test driving another car on the lot on Wednesday. It'll be somewhat cold out (-5C), so I'll be able to establish fairly quickly if it shifts better than mine. If it does, that indicates something is either mechanically faulty (synchros?) or not adjusted correctly. If it shifts the same, then it's either design or a poorly matched fluid for the conditions.


Make sure you drive it from bone-cold... i.e. ensure the lot boy hasn't warmed up the car first...


Right. I'll make sure of that. It would be silly for them to warm it up, as it would only make me believe my transmission is bad and cause them further headaches.

Thanks.
 
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