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Why does redline have so much calcium? #5345695 02/09/20 09:30 PM
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2000Trooper Offline OP
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Out of boredom I was looking up VOAs of different brand oils and when looking at the RL 5w30 VOA they have a [censored] ton of calcium, almost 3500ppm.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4848497/1

I know their additive package wont allow them to get the SN rating, but out of curiosity whats the intention of having so much calcium? Aren't there diminishing returns with how much detergent you put in? I'd imagine a motor can get so clean once any build up is removed, and this isn't marketed as some sort of high mileage cleaning oil.

Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345731 02/09/20 10:09 PM
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De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345782 02/09/20 11:57 PM
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Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.


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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345786 02/10/20 12:17 AM
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So much calcium??

For strong bones of course LOL


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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #5345823 02/10/20 03:05 AM
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2000Trooper Offline OP
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Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.

It's not that I think they're bad oils, just trying to understand what the purpose of having so much calcium is. High end oils pride them selves as race oils and I can understand why they'd go for extra levels of anti wear and such but not for a detergent. Seems like the old amsoil formula also had a ton of calcium too, but the new formulation being SN+ cut back calcium to below 1000ppm and added magnesium.

Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345834 02/10/20 04:01 AM
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metroplex Offline
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Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.

It's not that I think they're bad oils, just trying to understand what the purpose of having so much calcium is. High end oils pride them selves as race oils and I can understand why they'd go for extra levels of anti wear and such but not for a detergent. Seems like the old amsoil formula also had a ton of calcium too, but the new formulation being SN+ cut back calcium to below 1000ppm and added magnesium.


The reduced calcium came about after Toyota (and maybe a few other OEMs) linked high levels of calcium with LSPI on GTDI engines. So the Dexos 1 Gen 2 and new Dexos2 specs call for LSPI testing, and subsequently reduced calcium levels (about 1000-1200 ppm based on what I have seen).

Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345843 02/10/20 04:50 AM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Out of boredom I was looking up VOAs of different brand oils and when looking at the RL 5w30 VOA they have a [censored] ton of calcium, almost 3500ppm.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4848497/1

I know their additive package wont allow them to get the SN rating, but out of curiosity whats the intention of having so much calcium? Aren't there diminishing returns with how much detergent you put in? I'd imagine a motor can get so clean once any build up is removed, and this isn't marketed as some sort of high mileage cleaning oil.

Redline now has a low Calcium Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. It's Red Line Oil Professional Series Full Synthetic Dexos Approved 5W-30.
Google it.



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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345846 02/10/20 05:01 AM
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It's basically using old school Calcium Sulfonates as detergents, no ?

Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345876 02/10/20 06:36 AM
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Marketing. It is how these boutique brands (Amsoil and Royal Purple are others) set themselves apart. "More is better" marketing and typically the users of these oils are not concerned with the lifespan of their catalytic converters.

3500ppm calcium...Would that be an API SG (circa 1993) oil?


I would never hesitate to use Redline in a racing/track day application and they will take care of their customers.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 02/10/20 06:39 AM.

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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345893 02/10/20 07:13 AM
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They must have felt there was some benefit, especially pre-LSPI. Then there's marketing. IMO the majors have closed the gap so much in oil quality and value that the boutiques are grabbing at straws to retain and attract customers. hide


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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5345907 02/10/20 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Out of boredom I was looking up VOAs of different brand oils and when looking at the RL 5w30 VOA they have a [censored] ton of calcium, almost 3500ppm.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4848497/1

I know their additive package wont allow them to get the SN rating, but out of curiosity whats the intention of having so much calcium? Aren't there diminishing returns with how much detergent you put in? I'd imagine a motor can get so clean once any build up is removed, and this isn't marketed as some sort of high mileage cleaning oil.

Redline now has a low Calcium Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. It's Red Line Oil Professional Series Full Synthetic Dexos Approved 5W-30.
Google it.


Yes, and as we explored in our previous discussion on this, it's just a rebranded product from their parent company, definitely not worth paying a premium for if you can get the other version cheaper.


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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5345918 02/10/20 07:47 AM
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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: zeng] #5347421 02/11/20 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by zeng
It's basically using old school Calcium Sulfonates as detergents, no ?


Not really.

Some of the calcuim is calcium sulfonate for detergency and the other is a special calcium carbonate for friction reduction.


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Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: metroplex] #5347817 02/12/20 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by metroplex
Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.

It's not that I think they're bad oils, just trying to understand what the purpose of having so much calcium is. High end oils pride them selves as race oils and I can understand why they'd go for extra levels of anti wear and such but not for a detergent. Seems like the old amsoil formula also had a ton of calcium too, but the new formulation being SN+ cut back calcium to below 1000ppm and added magnesium.


The reduced calcium came about after Toyota (and maybe a few other OEMs) linked high levels of calcium with LSPI on GTDI engines. So the Dexos 1 Gen 2 and new Dexos2 specs call for LSPI testing, and subsequently reduced calcium levels (about 1000-1200 ppm based on what I have seen).


That's not correct. Dexos2 does not cover LSPI. I use Motul xclean efe 5w-30 that has the Dexos1 and dexos2 designation among others and it has 1800ppm of calcium as tested via a VOA.

https://www.mrtonneau.com/dexos-1-vs-dexos-2/


"Earlier GM suggested Dexos 2 for mass use but recently they discovered that this oil blend does not cover LSPI. Thus recently this oil is being used only for diesel engines. On the other hand the Dexos 1 oil has been evolved with two different categories and the Dexos1 gen 2 is the most updated one. This category is recommended for mass use at present."

Re: Why does redline have so much calcium? [Re: 2000Trooper] #5348119 02/12/20 12:57 PM
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There are still some oils around with that amount of calcium, especially if they are HDEO or API SL.

The Rimula in my sig has:

Ca - Calcium, ppm 3434
Mg - Magnesium, ppm 17
B - Boron, ppm 446


Motul Power 15W50 has also around 3400ppm as posted on this thread:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5336815/motul-4100-15w50#Post5336815


Last edited by LeoStrop; 02/12/20 01:04 PM.

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