For me it is primarily wet weather and ride. I hate soft sidewall tires and prefer a tire with a stiffer sidewall. Hate taking curves and feels like the tires are rolling under so I guess that is really performance.
Most important tire performance parameter?
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I cant give you the link and it is for Europe, but a recent insurance company study, showed 70% of significant accidents (with injuries and/or damages) were in wet weather, rain/rain and fog.
Originally Posted by edyvw
As for snow, no tire that is good in snow will be good in summer months. There is no any way around this.
I slightly disagree.
For many drivers, a winter tire driven on in summer is not clearly compromised enough to notice much difference. Driven " normally ... " a typical winter tire stops, turns and go's good enough for most. Sure, testing indicates that a winter tire won't stop as well, or sometimes has less than great wet grip, is usually louder and definitely won't wear as well, but, again, to the average driver, these differences are minimal.
On the other side of the equation, many summer / 3 season tires that work just fine in the summer are absolutely terrible in the winter. The performance difference is often much, much greater for a poor " all season " tire winter to summer.
As for snow, no tire that is good in snow will be good in summer months. There is no any way around this.
I slightly disagree.
For many drivers, a winter tire driven on in summer is not clearly compromised enough to notice much difference. Driven " normally ... " a typical winter tire stops, turns and go's good enough for most. Sure, testing indicates that a winter tire won't stop as well, or sometimes has less than great wet grip, is usually louder and definitely won't wear as well, but, again, to the average driver, these differences are minimal.
On the other side of the equation, many summer / 3 season tires that work just fine in the summer are absolutely terrible in the winter. The performance difference is often much, much greater for a poor " all season " tire winter to summer.
I'll agree that wet grip is the most important consideration in a tire, especially since in most parts of the country you'll see more wet conditions than serious winter ones.
Dedicated winters are great for the small number of miles most of us do in real frozen delight conditions but then suck for the majority of the miles between November and March. We've had Blizzaks on cars in the past and they really were good in snow and ice conditions but weren't all that great the rest of the time.
Those of us who grew up in areas with real winter are comfortable driving in winter conditions and know to dial it back a bit on slick roads as well as knowing that actual snow depth is your friend and will help you stop and corner although you must maintain momentum.
I'll add that as you go up the price ladder for tires, you'll find that the tires check more of the boxes.
Dedicated winters are great for the small number of miles most of us do in real frozen delight conditions but then suck for the majority of the miles between November and March. We've had Blizzaks on cars in the past and they really were good in snow and ice conditions but weren't all that great the rest of the time.
Those of us who grew up in areas with real winter are comfortable driving in winter conditions and know to dial it back a bit on slick roads as well as knowing that actual snow depth is your friend and will help you stop and corner although you must maintain momentum.
I'll add that as you go up the price ladder for tires, you'll find that the tires check more of the boxes.
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by dbias
Tires are judged by dry, wet, snow, comfort, noise and braking performance just to name a few. I personally feel wet performance is the thing I place the most importance too. What's your thoughts?
like most things, my answer is "it depends". With my tuned GTI, dry performance was pretty important, since I was able to light up the dashboard with ECS lights under hard acceleration--with a pretty sticky tire. After moving on to a Golf R and traction to all 4 wheels, wet performance is a lot more important. I will never hit the limits in the dry on this car on public roads, but I'll be a lot closer in the wet.
Noise is pretty important to me as well. Tread wear isn't, since I don't drive that much.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dbias
Tires are judged by dry, wet, snow, comfort, noise and braking performance just to name a few. I personally feel wet performance is the thing I place the most importance too. What's your thoughts?
I judge only winter tires in snow and ice.
Is that really true? You're always complaining about Nokians and how the perform in the wet!
I do not think you understood me. I am not going to take all season tires as serious snow tire or serious summer performance tire.
When it comes to Nokian, I complain about their wet performance in comparison to other snow tires, not tires like Michelin PSS or similar, bcs. that is impossible.
And yes, they are absolute POS in wet, compared to OTHER snow tires.
Originally Posted by dbias
Tires are judged by dry, wet, snow, comfort, noise and braking performance just to name a few. I personally feel wet performance is the thing I place the most importance too. What's your thoughts?
like most things, my answer is "it depends". With my tuned GTI, dry performance was pretty important, since I was able to light up the dashboard with ECS lights under hard acceleration--with a pretty sticky tire. After moving on to a Golf R and traction to all 4 wheels, wet performance is a lot more important. I will never hit the limits in the dry on this car on public roads, but I'll be a lot closer in the wet.
Noise is pretty important to me as well. Tread wear isn't, since I don't drive that much.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dbias
Tires are judged by dry, wet, snow, comfort, noise and braking performance just to name a few. I personally feel wet performance is the thing I place the most importance too. What's your thoughts?
I judge only winter tires in snow and ice.
Is that really true? You're always complaining about Nokians and how the perform in the wet!
I do not think you understood me. I am not going to take all season tires as serious snow tire or serious summer performance tire.
When it comes to Nokian, I complain about their wet performance in comparison to other snow tires, not tires like Michelin PSS or similar, bcs. that is impossible.
And yes, they are absolute POS in wet, compared to OTHER snow tires.
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by edyvw
As for snow, no tire that is good in snow will be good in summer months. There is no any way around this.
I slightly disagree.
For many drivers, a winter tire driven on in summer is not clearly compromised enough to notice much difference. Driven " normally ... " a typical winter tire stops, turns and go's good enough for most. Sure, testing indicates that a winter tire won't stop as well, or sometimes has less than great wet grip, is usually louder and definitely won't wear as well, but, again, to the average driver, these differences are minimal.
On the other side of the equation, many summer / 3 season tires that work just fine in the summer are absolutely terrible in the winter. The performance difference is often much, much greater for a poor " all season " tire winter to summer.
This is BITOG. We argue whether Shell or Motul is better, and which one will be detrimental to engine
Most drivers in my neighborhood 3 days after snow are still asking questions on neighborhood Facbook page: is it safe to get out?
Originally Posted by edyvw
As for snow, no tire that is good in snow will be good in summer months. There is no any way around this.
I slightly disagree.
For many drivers, a winter tire driven on in summer is not clearly compromised enough to notice much difference. Driven " normally ... " a typical winter tire stops, turns and go's good enough for most. Sure, testing indicates that a winter tire won't stop as well, or sometimes has less than great wet grip, is usually louder and definitely won't wear as well, but, again, to the average driver, these differences are minimal.
On the other side of the equation, many summer / 3 season tires that work just fine in the summer are absolutely terrible in the winter. The performance difference is often much, much greater for a poor " all season " tire winter to summer.
This is BITOG. We argue whether Shell or Motul is better, and which one will be detrimental to engine
Most drivers in my neighborhood 3 days after snow are still asking questions on neighborhood Facbook page: is it safe to get out?
Originally Posted by edyvw
This is BITOG. We argue whether Shell or Motul is better, and which one will be detrimental to engine
Most drivers in my neighbourhood 3 days after snow are still asking questions on neighbourhood Facebook page: is it safe to get out?
LOL ... No kidding.
Once had a co-worker ask me what was a good winter car, because their's was terrible in the snow and ice. I asked what they were driving now ?
They said a 4 year old Honda CR-V, with AWD. I said, hmmmm, CR-V's are usually pretty good in the winter. What kind of tires do you have, and how worn are they ?
They had NO IDEA. Turns out the tires were the factory all seasons, worn down to the wear bars.
Yep, those Honda CR-V's ARE bad in the winter ! Or not ...
This is BITOG. We argue whether Shell or Motul is better, and which one will be detrimental to engine
Most drivers in my neighbourhood 3 days after snow are still asking questions on neighbourhood Facebook page: is it safe to get out?
LOL ... No kidding.
Once had a co-worker ask me what was a good winter car, because their's was terrible in the snow and ice. I asked what they were driving now ?
They said a 4 year old Honda CR-V, with AWD. I said, hmmmm, CR-V's are usually pretty good in the winter. What kind of tires do you have, and how worn are they ?
They had NO IDEA. Turns out the tires were the factory all seasons, worn down to the wear bars.
Yep, those Honda CR-V's ARE bad in the winter ! Or not ...
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
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Originally Posted by dbias
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dbias
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Even if you're not retired, many companies allow for telework, so during inclement weather they can work from home, unless your are essential to the company where you have to be there, even during inclement weather.
If you're retired, unless you have some pressing need to venture out, one can stay inside until the plows roll though.
Did you not see the Engineering Explained video comparing summer tires to winter tires in dry-cold (24 deg F) winter braking?
It shows the summer tires outperforming the Michelin Xice Xi2 in dry-cold braking, so in absolutes, winter tires don't outperform all the other tires in cold weather.
Originally Posted by dbias
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Even if you're not retired, many companies allow for telework, so during inclement weather they can work from home, unless your are essential to the company where you have to be there, even during inclement weather.
If you're retired, unless you have some pressing need to venture out, one can stay inside until the plows roll though.
Did you not see the Engineering Explained video comparing summer tires to winter tires in dry-cold (24 deg F) winter braking?
It shows the summer tires outperforming the Michelin Xice Xi2 in dry-cold braking, so in absolutes, winter tires don't outperform all the other tires in cold weather.
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dbias
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Even if you're not retired, many companies allow for telework, so during inclement weather they can work from home, unless your are essential to the company where you have to be there, even during inclement weather.
If you're retired, unless you have some pressing need to venture out, one can stay inside until the plows roll though.
Did you not see the Engineering Explained video comparing summer tires to winter tires in dry-cold (24 deg F) winter braking?
It shows the summer tires outperforming the Michelin Xice Xi2 in dry-cold braking, so in absolutes, winter tires don't outperform all the other tires in cold weather.
Actually, my wife works from home, and my job is whatever I want to do.
And no, life does not work that way.
Also, do I take out car with summer tires if it is 24 degrees only? What if it is 32 and wet? What if it is 0? If I take out car with summer tires if it is 24, and temperature drops while I drive, and maybe it starts to snow, what do I do then?
All those who argue that one can stay home during inclement weather were proven wrong last year here when people could go to grocery store in 40 degrees, and by the time they finished shopping it was all ice on the road, wind blowing 106mph few miles from my home, and bunch of those who argued how they just stay home when it snows needed to get rescued. In area 3 miles around my home there were 200+ abandoned vehicles.
Stay at home is theory, nothing else.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dbias
Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm with what Bachman said for the most part. I just can't justify the cost and hassle of getting dedicated snow tires for the occasional snow covered road, so I stick with all seasons. So far, the Altimax RT43's have done good to great with everything I've thrown at them with my RWD vehicle.
Where I live we either get a dusting of snow or 18 inches. These tires were placed on the A4 and in the three years I've had it I have never had any problems going wherever I wanted. The Quattro system works real well going in the snow and as with any situation in snow it's more important to be able to stop than go in the snow.
With the Quattro I've never considered a dedicated set of winter tires and wheels for the car because if its really that bad I'll just stay home till the plows clear the roads a bit. I'm retired so I have that luxury.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Even if you're not retired, many companies allow for telework, so during inclement weather they can work from home, unless your are essential to the company where you have to be there, even during inclement weather.
If you're retired, unless you have some pressing need to venture out, one can stay inside until the plows roll though.
Did you not see the Engineering Explained video comparing summer tires to winter tires in dry-cold (24 deg F) winter braking?
It shows the summer tires outperforming the Michelin Xice Xi2 in dry-cold braking, so in absolutes, winter tires don't outperform all the other tires in cold weather.
Actually, my wife works from home, and my job is whatever I want to do.
And no, life does not work that way.
Also, do I take out car with summer tires if it is 24 degrees only? What if it is 32 and wet? What if it is 0? If I take out car with summer tires if it is 24, and temperature drops while I drive, and maybe it starts to snow, what do I do then?
All those who argue that one can stay home during inclement weather were proven wrong last year here when people could go to grocery store in 40 degrees, and by the time they finished shopping it was all ice on the road, wind blowing 106mph few miles from my home, and bunch of those who argued how they just stay home when it snows needed to get rescued. In area 3 miles around my home there were 200+ abandoned vehicles.
Stay at home is theory, nothing else.
Not sure anybody thinks 24*F is COLD. Had he done those tests at 0*F or colder, the results would likely have been much better for the winter set up. Plus, the summer tires ( Bridgestone RE71R's ) are a super aggressive, super soft max performance / auto-x tire with minimal tread pattern, tread depth and zero sipes. Compared to the winter tire with heavily siped and generally small, unstable tread blocks, the summer tire SHOULD brake better, as it will be a much more stable platform.
Not a great test, IMO.
Here is an RE-71R ...
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/02/full-63158-40998-58f7d556_2896_4e00_b4ef_4d342321ce69_4_5005_c.jpeg "[Linked Image]")
Not a great test, IMO.
Here is an RE-71R ...
Originally Posted by edyvw
I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Stay at home is theory, nothing else.
What do you think people who don't own cars do?
What did they do before there were cars?
Once when we had a blizzard here wife and I walked to the grocery store, 20 minutes each way.
When we left a neighbor also came out to dig out his car, when we came back he was still digging.
I'm not retired. Work is a 10 minute bike ride, or a 20-30 minute walk in bad weather.
One of my favorite snow storm activities is looking out my living room window watching neighbors dig their cars out,
sipping on tea spiked with brandy, popping logs in the wood stove.
After one blizzard my car was a featureless white hump for almost two weeks.
I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Stay at home is theory, nothing else.
What do you think people who don't own cars do?
What did they do before there were cars?
Once when we had a blizzard here wife and I walked to the grocery store, 20 minutes each way.
When we left a neighbor also came out to dig out his car, when we came back he was still digging.
I'm not retired. Work is a 10 minute bike ride, or a 20-30 minute walk in bad weather.
One of my favorite snow storm activities is looking out my living room window watching neighbors dig their cars out,
sipping on tea spiked with brandy, popping logs in the wood stove.
After one blizzard my car was a featureless white hump for almost two weeks.
Originally Posted by edyvw
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Even if you're not retired, many companies allow for telework, so during inclement weather they can work from home, unless your are essential to the company where you have to be there, even during inclement weather.
If you're retired, unless you have some pressing need to venture out, one can stay inside until the plows roll though.
Did you not see the Engineering Explained video comparing summer tires to winter tires in dry-cold (24 deg F) winter braking?
It shows the summer tires outperforming the Michelin Xice Xi2 in dry-cold braking, so in absolutes, winter tires don't outperform all the other tires in cold weather.
[/quote]
Actually, my wife works from home, and my job is whatever I want to do.
And no, life does not work that way.
Also, do I take out car with summer tires if it is 24 degrees only? What if it is 32 and wet? What if it is 0? If I take out car with summer tires if it is 24, and temperature drops while I drive, and maybe it starts to snow, what do I do then?
All those who argue that one can stay home during inclement weather were proven wrong last year here when people could go to grocery store in 40 degrees, and by the time they finished shopping it was all ice on the road, wind blowing 106mph few miles from my home, and bunch of those who argued how they just stay home when it snows needed to get rescued. In area 3 miles around my home there were 200+ abandoned vehicles.
Stay at home is theory, nothing else. [/quote]
When you talk in absolutes, all it takes is evidence of 1 counter argument to prove the absolute statement as being wrong. The correct answer is "it depends on the situation".
When people panic before a storm, they crowd at the last minute, grocery stores for milk and bread, so of course, the lines will be long. It's their fault for not being prepared ahead of time, especially when meteorologists give people advanced warning that a storm might be coming.
Are schools always open during a snow storm? No, they close, have a delayed opening, or have early dismissal. Students don't have to be at school when it snows.
OK. Snow tires are not only important in snow. Their official designation is winter tire, as they outperform all other tires in cold wether, braking and handling. Honestly I cannot wrap my mind around this argument "I can stay at home" bcs. life does not work that way, even if you are retired.
Even if you're not retired, many companies allow for telework, so during inclement weather they can work from home, unless your are essential to the company where you have to be there, even during inclement weather.
If you're retired, unless you have some pressing need to venture out, one can stay inside until the plows roll though.
Did you not see the Engineering Explained video comparing summer tires to winter tires in dry-cold (24 deg F) winter braking?
It shows the summer tires outperforming the Michelin Xice Xi2 in dry-cold braking, so in absolutes, winter tires don't outperform all the other tires in cold weather.
[/quote]
Actually, my wife works from home, and my job is whatever I want to do.
And no, life does not work that way.
Also, do I take out car with summer tires if it is 24 degrees only? What if it is 32 and wet? What if it is 0? If I take out car with summer tires if it is 24, and temperature drops while I drive, and maybe it starts to snow, what do I do then?
All those who argue that one can stay home during inclement weather were proven wrong last year here when people could go to grocery store in 40 degrees, and by the time they finished shopping it was all ice on the road, wind blowing 106mph few miles from my home, and bunch of those who argued how they just stay home when it snows needed to get rescued. In area 3 miles around my home there were 200+ abandoned vehicles.
Stay at home is theory, nothing else. [/quote]
When you talk in absolutes, all it takes is evidence of 1 counter argument to prove the absolute statement as being wrong. The correct answer is "it depends on the situation".
When people panic before a storm, they crowd at the last minute, grocery stores for milk and bread, so of course, the lines will be long. It's their fault for not being prepared ahead of time, especially when meteorologists give people advanced warning that a storm might be coming.
Are schools always open during a snow storm? No, they close, have a delayed opening, or have early dismissal. Students don't have to be at school when it snows.
Noise level.98% drive time you use a small fraction of tire performance.
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer
It was an old saying in the tire industry that the 3 most important things about tires were wear, wear, and wear. I have seen no evidence that this has changed.
I think if you are talking to the average consumer, then you are likely correct: wear trumps all, by several orders of magnitude. On an automotive forum where people spend their free time talking about cars, I think the answer is likely a bit more nuanced.
I will say that for me personally, wear is probably the least important parameter. Part of is that I just don't drive that much any longer, so the expense isn't a big consideration. The other part is that expensive bicycle tires for multiple race bikes have likely altered my view on tires. I just look at them as consumables, and the most expensive car tire is still worlds cheaper per mile than my bike tires.
It was an old saying in the tire industry that the 3 most important things about tires were wear, wear, and wear. I have seen no evidence that this has changed.
I think if you are talking to the average consumer, then you are likely correct: wear trumps all, by several orders of magnitude. On an automotive forum where people spend their free time talking about cars, I think the answer is likely a bit more nuanced.
I will say that for me personally, wear is probably the least important parameter. Part of is that I just don't drive that much any longer, so the expense isn't a big consideration. The other part is that expensive bicycle tires for multiple race bikes have likely altered my view on tires. I just look at them as consumables, and the most expensive car tire is still worlds cheaper per mile than my bike tires.
Within my budget, I always make Wet Performance (Hydroplaning Resistance + Wet Traction) my number 1 parameter. Florida is no Sunshine state, but a thunderstorm one.
Quote
When you talk in absolutes, all it takes is evidence of 1 counter argument to prove the absolute statement as being wrong. The correct answer is "it depends on the situation".
When people panic before a storm, they crowd at the last minute, grocery stores for milk and bread, so of course, the lines will be long. It's their fault for not being prepared ahead of time, especially when meteorologists give people advanced warning that a storm might be coming.
Are schools always open during a snow storm? No, they close, have a delayed opening, or have early dismissal. Students don't have to be at school when it snows.
No this is not absolute.
Actually, when people got stranded I was taking kid from daycare. I picked up few neighbors along the way that left vehicles some 2 miles from our neighborhood as I had 5 more seats (Sienna). Schools were open, as all businesses. That night I went with Tiguan to pick up 8 month pregnant lady that was stranded some 9+ hours in her Pilot. My neighbor and I managed to convince police to get a snowcat and pick her up or we will go and pick her up. So, no this is not absolute. You are assuming this was absolute.
5 years ago I went to my office, which is 9.8 miles from my home when it was 64 degrees. It takes me some 15-20 minutes to get there, and Colorado Springs is no 405 n LA. Came there it was 17 degrees.
So, stay at home works in theory!
When you talk in absolutes, all it takes is evidence of 1 counter argument to prove the absolute statement as being wrong. The correct answer is "it depends on the situation".
When people panic before a storm, they crowd at the last minute, grocery stores for milk and bread, so of course, the lines will be long. It's their fault for not being prepared ahead of time, especially when meteorologists give people advanced warning that a storm might be coming.
Are schools always open during a snow storm? No, they close, have a delayed opening, or have early dismissal. Students don't have to be at school when it snows.
No this is not absolute.
Actually, when people got stranded I was taking kid from daycare. I picked up few neighbors along the way that left vehicles some 2 miles from our neighborhood as I had 5 more seats (Sienna). Schools were open, as all businesses. That night I went with Tiguan to pick up 8 month pregnant lady that was stranded some 9+ hours in her Pilot. My neighbor and I managed to convince police to get a snowcat and pick her up or we will go and pick her up. So, no this is not absolute. You are assuming this was absolute.
5 years ago I went to my office, which is 9.8 miles from my home when it was 64 degrees. It takes me some 15-20 minutes to get there, and Colorado Springs is no 405 n LA. Came there it was 17 degrees.
So, stay at home works in theory!
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Originally Posted by Pew
C&D or Motortrend I think did a test with snow tires versus either a PSS or Star Spec IIs in below freezing weather. The summer tires were still on top, but the best snow tires were only a few seconds behind.
I had PSS on VW CC, and in Fall-Winter-Spring Bridgestone LM60. Below 40 degrees Bridgestone Blizzak LM60 hands down. Below 50 PSS starts to lose performance dramatically, and breaks away fast. I consider PSS as one of those "best thing after sliced bread." They had ridicilous dry and wet performance. IMO that tire would defy laws of physics. But below 50, unless you driven it 10 miles on interstate and warmed it up to operating temperature, it breaks away fast, activates ABS soon, and can spin wheel at any time.
C&D or Motortrend I think did a test with snow tires versus either a PSS or Star Spec IIs in below freezing weather. The summer tires were still on top, but the best snow tires were only a few seconds behind.
I had PSS on VW CC, and in Fall-Winter-Spring Bridgestone LM60. Below 40 degrees Bridgestone Blizzak LM60 hands down. Below 50 PSS starts to lose performance dramatically, and breaks away fast. I consider PSS as one of those "best thing after sliced bread." They had ridicilous dry and wet performance. IMO that tire would defy laws of physics. But below 50, unless you driven it 10 miles on interstate and warmed it up to operating temperature, it breaks away fast, activates ABS soon, and can spin wheel at any time.
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