Very minimal A-S on the threads only, never the lug nut cone or face, or wheel seat. Also a thin sheen on the bearing surface of the hub where the wheel contacts it. Reduce torque by 10%. Never had a loose lug nut in almost 1M miles.
Oiled Or Greased Studs?
- Thread starter Mr_Luke
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Kestas
Staff member
I can attest to rechecking the torque after 50-100 miles. Once I did not, and took a cross country trip. After 1300 miles I found four lug nuts loose... some of them free with more than one turn loose!
JHZR2
Staff member
I just brass wire brush mine.
I can't see how one could consistently lube, and thus consistently torque the bolts/nuts.
I can't see how one could consistently lube, and thus consistently torque the bolts/nuts.
Originally Posted by JHZR2
I just brass wire brush mine.
I can't see how one could consistently lube, and thus consistently torque the bolts/nuts.
Speaking of consistency, I recently read through an article in a pipe/plumbing magazine, and they found that lubricated threads provided a more consistent clamping force than dry threads at a given torque. I wouldn't want to oversimplify it, so go ahead and read it. It is actually pretty interesting. Of course, applying the lube in a consistent manner is your problem. I can't help you there.
https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/importance-using-thread-lubricants-bolted-connections
This plot pretty much sums it up. (A) are lubricated threads, and (B) are nonlubricated:
![[Linked Image from pumpsandsystems.com]](https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/sites/default/files/0818/SealingSense-Figure-3-Kfactor-scatter.jpg "[Linked Image from pumpsandsystems.com]")
I just brass wire brush mine.
I can't see how one could consistently lube, and thus consistently torque the bolts/nuts.
Speaking of consistency, I recently read through an article in a pipe/plumbing magazine, and they found that lubricated threads provided a more consistent clamping force than dry threads at a given torque. I wouldn't want to oversimplify it, so go ahead and read it. It is actually pretty interesting. Of course, applying the lube in a consistent manner is your problem. I can't help you there.
https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/importance-using-thread-lubricants-bolted-connections
This plot pretty much sums it up. (A) are lubricated threads, and (B) are nonlubricated:
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Good graph. Want to point out that for the same torque on the nut/bolt, the stretch or load in the bolt that was lubricated is about twice the Un-lubed case. So if lubing wheel studs, you are loading the studs a lot higher than they were designed for.
Originally Posted by whatnext
Good graph. Want to point out that for the same torque on the nut/bolt, the stretch or load in the bolt that was lubricated is about twice the Un-lubed case. So if lubing wheel studs, you are loading the studs a lot higher than they were designed for.
Yes, lubricant provides higher, but more consistent bolt stretch for a given torque. Of course, this is just one example. Materials, physical design, and type of lubricant are all important variables.
Good graph. Want to point out that for the same torque on the nut/bolt, the stretch or load in the bolt that was lubricated is about twice the Un-lubed case. So if lubing wheel studs, you are loading the studs a lot higher than they were designed for.
Yes, lubricant provides higher, but more consistent bolt stretch for a given torque. Of course, this is just one example. Materials, physical design, and type of lubricant are all important variables.
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Quote
Good graph. Want to point out that for the same torque on the nut/bolt, the stretch or load in the bolt that was lubricated is about twice the Un-lubed case. So if lubing wheel studs, you are loading the studs a lot higher than they were designed for.
Now THAT"S how you read a graph! A very intelligent observation.
Thank You for that.
Good graph. Want to point out that for the same torque on the nut/bolt, the stretch or load in the bolt that was lubricated is about twice the Un-lubed case. So if lubing wheel studs, you are loading the studs a lot higher than they were designed for.
Now THAT"S how you read a graph! A very intelligent observation.
Thank You for that.
All of you stud greasers might want to look at the clamping force charts by the Tire Industry Association when lube is added to the mix.
Wheels are a little different from other bolted joints that specify a certain lube. A flanged plumbing joint it is not.
Wheels are a little different from other bolted joints that specify a certain lube. A flanged plumbing joint it is not.
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My pals Johnny, Ponyboy, and Dairy put grease on the studs. They've always been considered outsiders.
Originally Posted by Traction
All of you stud greasers might want to look at the clamping force charts by the Tire Industry Association when lube is added to the mix.
Wheels are a little different from other bolted joints that specify a certain lube. A flanged plumbing joint it is not.
Cool. Do you have the rest of that article? I'd love to read the whole thing.
All of you stud greasers might want to look at the clamping force charts by the Tire Industry Association when lube is added to the mix.
Wheels are a little different from other bolted joints that specify a certain lube. A flanged plumbing joint it is not.
Cool. Do you have the rest of that article? I'd love to read the whole thing.
I've never seen anyone put oil or grease on wheel lugs and studs.
Kestas
Staff member
That's because you live in California and don't have to deal with rusted fasteners. Here in Michigan we've gotten tired of removing some wheels where you have to stand on the breaker bar and deal with the crunchiness of removing the lug nuts.
I'm in a heavy salt area and always put a thin film of grease on the wheel/rotor contact points, plus a thin coat of motor oil on the studs/bolts.
A couple decades and hundreds of thousands of miles later - never even a hint of a nut/bolt coming loose.
A couple decades and hundreds of thousands of miles later - never even a hint of a nut/bolt coming loose.
Originally Posted by Chris142
Lug nuts are to be installed dry. The friction between the ball ,seat and threads are what keeps them on. Lubricate one of those and you lose 1/2 of the things that keep them on.
Dunno about that. My Porsche owners manual says to use "anti seize paste" on the threads but to avoid putting any on the cone where it contacts the wheel. I think Porsche knows a thing or two about keeping wheels on a high performance car. Of course do what your owners manual says.
This topic gets more play on this forum than just about anything else except "what oil should I use" or "what is the best oil" LOL
Lug nuts are to be installed dry. The friction between the ball ,seat and threads are what keeps them on. Lubricate one of those and you lose 1/2 of the things that keep them on.
Dunno about that. My Porsche owners manual says to use "anti seize paste" on the threads but to avoid putting any on the cone where it contacts the wheel. I think Porsche knows a thing or two about keeping wheels on a high performance car. Of course do what your owners manual says.
This topic gets more play on this forum than just about anything else except "what oil should I use" or "what is the best oil" LOL
A couple of thoughts:
The purpose of torqueing lug nuts (or any bolt/nut/fastener) is to stretch the threaded portion to create clamping force. It's this force that holds the parts together.
When you lubricate the threads of a fastener, it stretches the fastener more than with dry threads. Torque limits are published to allow for enough stretch to prevent vibrations from loosening the parts, but not enough to cause the fastener to fail.
Lubricant Torque Reduction (%)
No lube 0
Graphite 50 - 55
White Grease 35 - 45
SAE 30 oil 35 - 45
SAE 40 oil 30 - 40
Source: Engineering Toolbox: Lubricated Bolts and Reduced Torque
As you can see, it might be possible to permanently stretch a bolt if you don't reduce the amount of torque when using a lube.
And that doesn't include lubricating the contact surfaces.
The good news is that car manufacturers use SAE grade 8 lug nuts and bolts (or their equivalent.), but specify torque limits below the max. That means that most over torqueing won't result in damage.
The purpose of torqueing lug nuts (or any bolt/nut/fastener) is to stretch the threaded portion to create clamping force. It's this force that holds the parts together.
When you lubricate the threads of a fastener, it stretches the fastener more than with dry threads. Torque limits are published to allow for enough stretch to prevent vibrations from loosening the parts, but not enough to cause the fastener to fail.
Lubricant Torque Reduction (%)
No lube 0
Graphite 50 - 55
White Grease 35 - 45
SAE 30 oil 35 - 45
SAE 40 oil 30 - 40
Source: Engineering Toolbox: Lubricated Bolts and Reduced Torque
As you can see, it might be possible to permanently stretch a bolt if you don't reduce the amount of torque when using a lube.
And that doesn't include lubricating the contact surfaces.
The good news is that car manufacturers use SAE grade 8 lug nuts and bolts (or their equivalent.), but specify torque limits below the max. That means that most over torqueing won't result in damage.
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
A couple of thoughts:
The purpose of torqueing lug nuts (or any bolt/nut/fastener) is to stretch the threaded portion to create clamping force. It's this force that holds the parts together.
When you lubricate the threads of a fastener, it stretches the fastener more than with dry threads. Torque limits are published to allow for enough stretch to prevent vibrations from loosening the parts, but not enough to cause the fastener to fail.
Lubricant Torque Reduction (%)
No lube 0
Graphite 50 - 55
White Grease 35 - 45
SAE 30 oil 35 - 45
SAE 40 oil 30 - 40
Source: Engineering Toolbox: Lubricated Bolts and Reduced Torque
As you can see, it might be possible to permanently stretch a bolt if you don't reduce the amount of torque when using a lube.
And that doesn't include lubricating the contact surfaces.
The good news is that car manufacturers use SAE grade 8 lug nuts and bolts (or their equivalent.), but specify torque limits below the max. That means that most over torqueing won't result in damage.
Thank you. This topic of AZ on threads is confusing. My can of Permatex AZ says to apply it to clean threads and torque the bolt/nut to manufacturer spec. No mention is made of reducing torque to accommodate the AZ. I called them once and their guy said the same thing. Yet, everywhere else ppl say to reduce torque.
A couple of thoughts:
The purpose of torqueing lug nuts (or any bolt/nut/fastener) is to stretch the threaded portion to create clamping force. It's this force that holds the parts together.
When you lubricate the threads of a fastener, it stretches the fastener more than with dry threads. Torque limits are published to allow for enough stretch to prevent vibrations from loosening the parts, but not enough to cause the fastener to fail.
Lubricant Torque Reduction (%)
No lube 0
Graphite 50 - 55
White Grease 35 - 45
SAE 30 oil 35 - 45
SAE 40 oil 30 - 40
Source: Engineering Toolbox: Lubricated Bolts and Reduced Torque
As you can see, it might be possible to permanently stretch a bolt if you don't reduce the amount of torque when using a lube.
And that doesn't include lubricating the contact surfaces.
The good news is that car manufacturers use SAE grade 8 lug nuts and bolts (or their equivalent.), but specify torque limits below the max. That means that most over torqueing won't result in damage.
Thank you. This topic of AZ on threads is confusing. My can of Permatex AZ says to apply it to clean threads and torque the bolt/nut to manufacturer spec. No mention is made of reducing torque to accommodate the AZ. I called them once and their guy said the same thing. Yet, everywhere else ppl say to reduce torque.
In my experience, Bozos with air guns and young men with muscles over torque wheel lug nuts (and everything else) far more than me and my light brush of anti seize.
I recently did a quickie brake job on 2007 TSX. Professionally maintained (whatever that means).
Everything was over torqued. Removing the caliper bolts required a 1/2" breaker bar and a ton of leverage.
Sheesh.
I recently did a quickie brake job on 2007 TSX. Professionally maintained (whatever that means).
Everything was over torqued. Removing the caliper bolts required a 1/2" breaker bar and a ton of leverage.
Sheesh.
Originally Posted by E365
I'm in a heavy salt area and always put a thin film of grease on the wheel/rotor contact points, plus a thin coat of motor oil on the studs/bolts.
A couple decades and hundreds of thousands of miles later - never even a hint of a nut/bolt coming loose.
My experience as well.
I'm in a heavy salt area and always put a thin film of grease on the wheel/rotor contact points, plus a thin coat of motor oil on the studs/bolts.
A couple decades and hundreds of thousands of miles later - never even a hint of a nut/bolt coming loose.
My experience as well.
I use a bit of anti-seize(Loctite C5-A) and torque to OEM specs with a beam-type torque wrench. I might be off by -/+ 5ft-lbs but I never had an issue with a stripped wheel lug or stud. As long as nothing contacts the taper for stud piloted wheels or the wheel lug washer for hub piloted wheels.
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2 seconds of ugga dugga's per lug nut, no lube needed.
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