I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
1.3-Million-Mile Ford Super Duty on its ORIGINAL TRANSMISSION & ENGINE
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Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
You don't drive much do you? LOL
I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
You don't drive much do you? LOL
Originally Posted by JustinH
Seems like a pretty smart guy. Cares about his customer, doesn't put any cheap parts on the car.
He uses Motorcraft oil/filters and recommended BG fluid exchange services. Michellin tires only.
Interesting to hear 1 million miles out of the original injectors with BG Diesel fuel service regularly.
And on a HEUI setup too - which thrive on good oil.
He didn't mention any suspension or brake work done, granted this truck lived a mostly highway life but towing does stress out things in a different way.
Seems like a pretty smart guy. Cares about his customer, doesn't put any cheap parts on the car.
He uses Motorcraft oil/filters and recommended BG fluid exchange services. Michellin tires only.
Interesting to hear 1 million miles out of the original injectors with BG Diesel fuel service regularly.
And on a HEUI setup too - which thrive on good oil.
He didn't mention any suspension or brake work done, granted this truck lived a mostly highway life but towing does stress out things in a different way.
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If it still has the original suspension, I am not sure how he has avoided "death wobble".
Originally Posted by willbur
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
You don't drive much do you? LOL
My traffic pales in comparison to CA but I drove only a manual for years up here. I had a rental while my car was in the shop and I found having to hold my foot on the brake was more work than holding the clutch to the floor! Maybe it was just that particular rental but it felt like more work than driving my manual. Today's clutches can be feather light.
Worst part of my manual was that it wouldn't go slow enough in some jams. Clutch out, idle was 5mph. Way too fast, so that did get tiring, time to time. Still way more enjoyable than an automatic that is constantly in the wrong gear (stuff has changed in the last 10 years so don't take that as a overall condemnation of all automatics).
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
You don't drive much do you? LOL
My traffic pales in comparison to CA but I drove only a manual for years up here. I had a rental while my car was in the shop and I found having to hold my foot on the brake was more work than holding the clutch to the floor! Maybe it was just that particular rental but it felt like more work than driving my manual. Today's clutches can be feather light.
Worst part of my manual was that it wouldn't go slow enough in some jams. Clutch out, idle was 5mph. Way too fast, so that did get tiring, time to time. Still way more enjoyable than an automatic that is constantly in the wrong gear (stuff has changed in the last 10 years so don't take that as a overall condemnation of all automatics).
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by willbur
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
You don't drive much do you? LOL
My traffic pales in comparison to CA but I drove only a manual for years up here. I had a rental while my car was in the shop and I found having to hold my foot on the brake was more work than holding the clutch to the floor! Maybe it was just that particular rental but it felt like more work than driving my manual. Today's clutches can be feather light.
Worst part of my manual was that it wouldn't go slow enough in some jams. Clutch out, idle was 5mph. Way too fast, so that did get tiring, time to time. Still way more enjoyable than an automatic that is constantly in the wrong gear (stuff has changed in the last 10 years so don't take that as a overall condemnation of all automatics).
If one drives a manual trans the correct way-depress clutch at a traffic backup; shift into neutral; release clutch; wait for traffic to move 2 feet; depress clutch; shift back into gear; release clutch; move 2 feet. Repeat 1000 times to go a mile. Just depressing clutch and waiting to move wears out release bearing and R&R. Try this routine many times every week. I fail to see how this is "way more enjoyable than an automatic" and "having to hold my foot on the brake was more work..." Driving in NH is heaven compared to BIG city life. LOL
Originally Posted by willbur
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have 3 manual cars in Southern CA. Traffic is bad in anything. Manual at least gives you something to do. I can see a heavy clutch muscle car being miserable but newer cars have easy clutches.
You don't drive much do you? LOL
My traffic pales in comparison to CA but I drove only a manual for years up here. I had a rental while my car was in the shop and I found having to hold my foot on the brake was more work than holding the clutch to the floor! Maybe it was just that particular rental but it felt like more work than driving my manual. Today's clutches can be feather light.
Worst part of my manual was that it wouldn't go slow enough in some jams. Clutch out, idle was 5mph. Way too fast, so that did get tiring, time to time. Still way more enjoyable than an automatic that is constantly in the wrong gear (stuff has changed in the last 10 years so don't take that as a overall condemnation of all automatics).
If one drives a manual trans the correct way-depress clutch at a traffic backup; shift into neutral; release clutch; wait for traffic to move 2 feet; depress clutch; shift back into gear; release clutch; move 2 feet. Repeat 1000 times to go a mile. Just depressing clutch and waiting to move wears out release bearing and R&R. Try this routine many times every week. I fail to see how this is "way more enjoyable than an automatic" and "having to hold my foot on the brake was more work..." Driving in NH is heaven compared to BIG city life. LOL
Originally Posted by willbur
If one drives a manual trans the correct way-depress clutch at a traffic backup; shift into neutral; release clutch; wait for traffic to move 2 feet; depress clutch; shift back into gear; release clutch; move 2 feet. Repeat 1000 times to go a mile. Just depressing clutch and waiting to move wears out release bearing and R&R. Try this routine many times every week. I fail to see how this is "way more enjoyable than an automatic" and "having to hold my foot on the brake was more work..." Driving in NH is heaven compared to BIG city life. LOL
You're doing it wrong--you don't need to shift to neutral unless if you want to. I've read that many throwout bearings are always engaged now, so the old admonition about not holding the clutch to the floor is no longer true. [Might be harder on the thrust bearing though.] In NYC, yeah sure, I'd go automatic. But I crawled through a number of jams in MA and CT and didn't die. Ya adapt--if you shift to neutral then you wait until traffic moves more than 2 feet... FWIW my wife put 173k on her Civic, and 200k on her Camry, no clutch issues (out here in the sticks). My Jetta had 250k and the clutch was perfectly fine when inspected (flywheel failure), the mechanic thought I could reuse all the parts.
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.
YMMV.
If one drives a manual trans the correct way-depress clutch at a traffic backup; shift into neutral; release clutch; wait for traffic to move 2 feet; depress clutch; shift back into gear; release clutch; move 2 feet. Repeat 1000 times to go a mile. Just depressing clutch and waiting to move wears out release bearing and R&R. Try this routine many times every week. I fail to see how this is "way more enjoyable than an automatic" and "having to hold my foot on the brake was more work..." Driving in NH is heaven compared to BIG city life. LOL
You're doing it wrong--you don't need to shift to neutral unless if you want to. I've read that many throwout bearings are always engaged now, so the old admonition about not holding the clutch to the floor is no longer true. [Might be harder on the thrust bearing though.] In NYC, yeah sure, I'd go automatic. But I crawled through a number of jams in MA and CT and didn't die. Ya adapt--if you shift to neutral then you wait until traffic moves more than 2 feet... FWIW my wife put 173k on her Civic, and 200k on her Camry, no clutch issues (out here in the sticks). My Jetta had 250k and the clutch was perfectly fine when inspected (flywheel failure), the mechanic thought I could reuse all the parts.
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.
YMMV.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by willbur
If one drives a manual trans the correct way-depress clutch at a traffic backup; shift into neutral; release clutch; wait for traffic to move 2 feet; depress clutch; shift back into gear; release clutch; move 2 feet. Repeat 1000 times to go a mile. Just depressing clutch and waiting to move wears out release bearing and R&R. Try this routine many times every week. I fail to see how this is "way more enjoyable than an automatic" and "having to hold my foot on the brake was more work..." Driving in NH is heaven compared to BIG city life. LOL
You're doing it wrong--you don't need to shift to neutral unless if you want to. I've read that many throwout bearings are always engaged now, so the old admonition about not holding the clutch to the floor is no longer true. [Might be harder on the thrust bearing though.] In NYC, yeah sure, I'd go automatic. But I crawled through a number of jams in MA and CT and didn't die. Ya adapt--if you shift to neutral then you wait until traffic moves more than 2 feet... FWIW my wife put 173k on her Civic, and 200k on her Camry, no clutch issues (out here in the sticks). My Jetta had 250k and the clutch was perfectly fine when inspected (flywheel failure), the mechanic thought I could reuse all the parts.
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.
YMMV.
Provide the link/documentation etc that says throwout bearing is always engaged. I would like to know that. If true, would make life easier for owners with manual trans. I cannot believe a manufacturer designs it this way. Makes no sense. But who knows...I forgot to mention wear and tear on the other clutch components with the constant shifting :friction disc, pressure plate
To say you did not die driving a manual in in several visits to MA or CT (probably vacation on off traffic times)is not the same as daily commuting (or even just driving around anymore). To say your wife's Camry and Civic (and your Jetta) has no issues "out here in the sticks" proves my point. Thank you. Try not moving 2 feet in heavy traffic and see what following drivers do! LOL
Originally Posted by willbur
If one drives a manual trans the correct way-depress clutch at a traffic backup; shift into neutral; release clutch; wait for traffic to move 2 feet; depress clutch; shift back into gear; release clutch; move 2 feet. Repeat 1000 times to go a mile. Just depressing clutch and waiting to move wears out release bearing and R&R. Try this routine many times every week. I fail to see how this is "way more enjoyable than an automatic" and "having to hold my foot on the brake was more work..." Driving in NH is heaven compared to BIG city life. LOL
You're doing it wrong--you don't need to shift to neutral unless if you want to. I've read that many throwout bearings are always engaged now, so the old admonition about not holding the clutch to the floor is no longer true. [Might be harder on the thrust bearing though.] In NYC, yeah sure, I'd go automatic. But I crawled through a number of jams in MA and CT and didn't die. Ya adapt--if you shift to neutral then you wait until traffic moves more than 2 feet... FWIW my wife put 173k on her Civic, and 200k on her Camry, no clutch issues (out here in the sticks). My Jetta had 250k and the clutch was perfectly fine when inspected (flywheel failure), the mechanic thought I could reuse all the parts.
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.
YMMV.
Provide the link/documentation etc that says throwout bearing is always engaged. I would like to know that. If true, would make life easier for owners with manual trans. I cannot believe a manufacturer designs it this way. Makes no sense. But who knows...I forgot to mention wear and tear on the other clutch components with the constant shifting :friction disc, pressure plate
To say you did not die driving a manual in in several visits to MA or CT (probably vacation on off traffic times)is not the same as daily commuting (or even just driving around anymore). To say your wife's Camry and Civic (and your Jetta) has no issues "out here in the sticks" proves my point. Thank you. Try not moving 2 feet in heavy traffic and see what following drivers do! LOL
I will never understand why people brag about driving a manual through traffic. It's about as egotistic as driving a lifted truck in chicago.
Originally Posted by supton
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.YMMV.
But then now you have to add work to the left leg to end up with the same amount of work a single foot can do.
Originally Posted by supton
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.YMMV.
But then now you have to add work to the left leg to end up with the same amount of work a single foot can do.
Originally Posted by willbur
Provide the link/documentation etc that says throwout bearing is always engaged. I would like to know that. If true, would make life easier for owners with manual trans. I cannot believe a manufacturer designs it this way. Makes no sense. But who knows...
Makes perfect sense to me--allows drivers to hold the clutch to the floor.
10 seconds of google shows this comes up in a number of discussions. Link. I would presume clicking around on some of the links will yield some official technical documents.
Quote
To say you did not die driving a manual in in several visits to MA or CT (probably vacation on off traffic times)is not the same as daily commuting. To say your wife's Camry and Civic (and your Jetta) has no issues "out here in the sticks" proves my point. Thank you. Try not moving 2 feet in heavy traffic and see what following drivers do! LOL
Fair enough, but I still differ. I have driven in heavy traffic, and I have driven during rush hour in those areas, and 2 feet is nothing. Maybe NYC and Ohio are really similar and thus are not comparable to MA traffic...
Originally Posted by Pew
I will never understand why people brag about driving a manual through traffic. It's about as egotistic as driving a lifted truck in chicago.
To combat all those who say it's impossible?
Quote
Originally Posted by supton
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.YMMV.
But then now you have to add work to the left leg to end up with the same amount of work a single foot can do.
But that is the point... it's the same amount of work. Net sum zero.
If you have a bum left leg, go auto. But if you have a bum right leg, the auto might be just as bad. [My brother has something on his right foot and wound up driving with both feet in his autos. I drove a rental UHaul once and wound up using my left foot on the throttle on hills as my right foot got tired!]
Provide the link/documentation etc that says throwout bearing is always engaged. I would like to know that. If true, would make life easier for owners with manual trans. I cannot believe a manufacturer designs it this way. Makes no sense. But who knows...
Makes perfect sense to me--allows drivers to hold the clutch to the floor.
10 seconds of google shows this comes up in a number of discussions. Link. I would presume clicking around on some of the links will yield some official technical documents.
Quote
To say you did not die driving a manual in in several visits to MA or CT (probably vacation on off traffic times)is not the same as daily commuting. To say your wife's Camry and Civic (and your Jetta) has no issues "out here in the sticks" proves my point. Thank you. Try not moving 2 feet in heavy traffic and see what following drivers do! LOL
Fair enough, but I still differ. I have driven in heavy traffic, and I have driven during rush hour in those areas, and 2 feet is nothing. Maybe NYC and Ohio are really similar and thus are not comparable to MA traffic...
Originally Posted by Pew
I will never understand why people brag about driving a manual through traffic. It's about as egotistic as driving a lifted truck in chicago.
To combat all those who say it's impossible?
Quote
Originally Posted by supton
Besides, it takes more effort to hold the brake down than it does the clutch to prevent creeping. Ok, if you let off the brake it will move then and then you have no left leg work in an auto, but all the effort and then some goes into the right leg. Net sum zero. More than a few jams I would move my car with only my left foot, just let the clutch in and out, my right foot just sat and did nothing.YMMV.
But then now you have to add work to the left leg to end up with the same amount of work a single foot can do.
But that is the point... it's the same amount of work. Net sum zero.
If you have a bum left leg, go auto. But if you have a bum right leg, the auto might be just as bad. [My brother has something on his right foot and wound up driving with both feet in his autos. I drove a rental UHaul once and wound up using my left foot on the throttle on hills as my right foot got tired!]
Hmmm. That's funny. Googled like you said and only Miata said their bearings are "special" and the throw out bearing stays engaged. Other sites say it does not stay engaged.
This was a quick search and that is what I found. I'm sure you will try your best to come up with some obscure site to prove otherwise and say "Gotsha"
Out
This was a quick search and that is what I found. I'm sure you will try your best to come up with some obscure site to prove otherwise and say "Gotsha"
Out
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Pew
I will never understand why people brag about driving a manual through traffic. It's about as egotistic as driving a lifted truck in chicago.
To combat all those who say it's impossible?
I don't think anybody said it's impossible. Just very inconvenient.
Originally Posted by supton
But that is the point... it's the same amount of work. Net sum zero.
It's not the same amount of work, it's more for the same end result. So while I'm stuck in traffic in my manual ford focus I can do one of two things:
1.) Foot on brake, clutch in, put car in neutral, release clutch. Traffic moves; I clutch in, put car in gear, clutch out and balance the clutch and gas, and hope I'm not stuck on a hill or going up to the entrance of Pike's Peak during rush hour.
2.) Foot on brake, clutch in and hold clutch in with left foot while my right foot is on the brake pedal and my car is still in gear. Easy to do in the focus, sucks when I'm driving the evo with a HD pressure plate. Sucks even more when the friction plate is a 6-puck disk.
For the automatic bmw I do one thing:
1.) Press brake pedal. Traffic moves, release brake pedal.
Originally Posted by Pew
I will never understand why people brag about driving a manual through traffic. It's about as egotistic as driving a lifted truck in chicago.
To combat all those who say it's impossible?
I don't think anybody said it's impossible. Just very inconvenient.
Originally Posted by supton
But that is the point... it's the same amount of work. Net sum zero.
It's not the same amount of work, it's more for the same end result. So while I'm stuck in traffic in my manual ford focus I can do one of two things:
1.) Foot on brake, clutch in, put car in neutral, release clutch. Traffic moves; I clutch in, put car in gear, clutch out and balance the clutch and gas, and hope I'm not stuck on a hill or going up to the entrance of Pike's Peak during rush hour.
2.) Foot on brake, clutch in and hold clutch in with left foot while my right foot is on the brake pedal and my car is still in gear. Easy to do in the focus, sucks when I'm driving the evo with a HD pressure plate. Sucks even more when the friction plate is a 6-puck disk.
For the automatic bmw I do one thing:
1.) Press brake pedal. Traffic moves, release brake pedal.
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Built Ford Tough.
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by discountdon
shifting through the gears with your hands and feet is a masculine pursuit of man mastering the machine
If in a semi truck. 13 speed Road Rangers !
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
Originally Posted by discountdon
shifting through the gears with your hands and feet is a masculine pursuit of man mastering the machine
If in a semi truck. 13 speed Road Rangers !
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by discountdon
shifting through the gears with your hands and feet is a masculine pursuit of man mastering the machine
If in a semi truck. 13 speed Road Rangers !
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
Having driven Eaton Autoshifts, they are AWFUL. I'd rather have an Allison.
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by discountdon
shifting through the gears with your hands and feet is a masculine pursuit of man mastering the machine
If in a semi truck. 13 speed Road Rangers !
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
Having driven Eaton Autoshifts, they are AWFUL. I'd rather have an Allison.
Originally Posted by nthach
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
So it barely makes it to 100k before failure?
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
So it barely makes it to 100k before failure?
I've got a 2000 7.3 that I bought with 19k miles and is now at 175k. I'm actually gonna turn the first bolts on this truck tomorrow outside of brakes. I went to start it the other day and the fuel tank was hanging down, straps rusted and broke. I can't bring myself to sell it and it's lucky to see a thousand miles a year since I sold our camper. Great engines but ford use horrible metal back in the 2000's, especially in Ohio winters.
Originally Posted by Anduril
Originally Posted by nthach
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
So it barely makes it to 100k before failure?
Supposedly the Allison TC series uses the same torque converter/lock-up system as their tour bus/fire truck/concrete mixer trannies. The mechanical part is a twin-shaft 10-speed. The electronics is their 4th or 5th gen WTEC platform with keypad or lever option. Same fluid as their automatics.
https://www.allisontransmission.com/home/tc10
ZF has been pushing the ASTronic series in the US, but has only found traction in the tour bus market.
Originally Posted by nthach
And now Eaton and Daimler is pushing AMTs, Allison released a automatic for Class 8 trucks that works like a Honda automatic.
So it barely makes it to 100k before failure?
Supposedly the Allison TC series uses the same torque converter/lock-up system as their tour bus/fire truck/concrete mixer trannies. The mechanical part is a twin-shaft 10-speed. The electronics is their 4th or 5th gen WTEC platform with keypad or lever option. Same fluid as their automatics.
https://www.allisontransmission.com/home/tc10
ZF has been pushing the ASTronic series in the US, but has only found traction in the tour bus market.
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Slick17601
Motor craft oil and filters
This is BITOG and an engine will not make it past warranty unless a syn oil is used and changed every 3,000 miles !
The only person here who says that is you.
I'm fact, last I knew you were the frog hair splitter party leader!
Originally Posted by Slick17601
Motor craft oil and filters
This is BITOG and an engine will not make it past warranty unless a syn oil is used and changed every 3,000 miles !
The only person here who says that is you.
I'm fact, last I knew you were the frog hair splitter party leader!
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