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COP's which brand #5334454 01/28/20 08:56 AM
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Eric Smith Online Content OP
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Had a misfire on our 04 Escape 3.0 v6 last night, I want to say sudden but I think it's been happening but no codes. The CEL pointed to #6, looking at it the plug had backed out 2-3 turns. The plugs only have 9k on them and I know they were tightened properly. The plug next to it was loose 1 turn but the next one over was still tight. The misfire was still there so swapped it out with one of the good factory Motorcrafts. It feels like it still has a miss so will have to check the back ones when the weather allows. The question would be why the plug backed out and is that what caused the bad COP or did the bad COP cause the plug to back out?

The generic Amazon front COP's have about 29k on them, the back ones have 9k when I changed all the plugs. I know most will say Motorcraft COP's but how about Denso or NGK COP's? Any experience with those brands in Ford vehicles?


05 Chevy 3500 (Class C RV) 71k
04 Escape 170k
02 Focus 152k
00 Dakota 95k
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334474 01/28/20 09:31 AM
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MNgopher Offline
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You are right you are going to hear Motorcraft only. That's my advice.

I've gone down the road of non Motorcraft COP's, and run into failures with 1/3rd to 1/2 the mileage.

I've always been able to source Motorcraft COP's at reasonable prices with some careful shopping. Stacking some offers at Advance often did the trick.

Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334475 01/28/20 09:31 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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I had a gasketed plug back out once on a subaru 1.8.

If it backed out, you didn't get it torqued correctly.

Somtimes you get socket bind in the head counterbore, others don't account for major torque loss.through a u-joint if at a slight angle

and - NO anti-seize!


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#9 70254mi-Rotella
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Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334476 01/28/20 09:32 AM
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skyactiv Offline
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?


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 18' Elantra Sport 6 speed manual
The rude guy that points out reality


Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334482 01/28/20 09:40 AM
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drtyler Offline
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On Rockauto, the Denso is quite a bit less expensive than the Motorcraft.

For this application, Denso is the OE manufacturer of that particular ignition coil. Buy Denso with confidence.

One other note: From the partstech site (which is correct most of the time), Motorcraft and Denso are showing as made in USA. The NGK coils are made in Mexico.

Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334485 01/28/20 09:43 AM
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Miller88 Offline
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ONLY Motorcraft, which means ONLY Denso. I don't know what it is about the early ford COP stuff, but they don't last long on OEM components and even less long on the non-OEM stuff.

I bought 8 Denso coils for my F350 from Rockauto. When they came in, I peeled the Denso sticker off and they actually have Motorcraft and the Motorcraft PN printed into the top of them.



18 Forester 2.5I 6M
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Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334486 01/28/20 09:46 AM
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javacontour Offline
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I would spend the money on the back ones.

When I did my daughter's 2005 (or 06) Escape with the 3.0, we bought three new coils for the back bank as the intake comes off. Buy what you want for the front, or re-use good, old coils as they are simple to replace.

Since I was spending her money and my time, good coils and plugs in the back. Good new plugs and the existing coils up front.

It's a long hour to get the intake off to get to the back plugs, so you probably only want to do that job once.

Originally Posted by Eric Smith
Had a misfire on our 04 Escape 3.0 v6 last night, I want to say sudden but I think it's been happening but no codes. The CEL pointed to #6, looking at it the plug had backed out 2-3 turns. The plugs only have 9k on them and I know they were tightened properly. The plug next to it was loose 1 turn but the next one over was still tight. The misfire was still there so swapped it out with one of the good factory Motorcrafts. It feels like it still has a miss so will have to check the back ones when the weather allows. The question would be why the plug backed out and is that what caused the bad COP or did the bad COP cause the plug to back out?

The generic Amazon front COP's have about 29k on them, the back ones have 9k when I changed all the plugs. I know most will say Motorcraft COP's but how about Denso or NGK COP's? Any experience with those brands in Ford vehicles?


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: COP's which brand [Re: javacontour] #5334508 01/28/20 10:21 AM
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Eric Smith Online Content OP
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I was leaning towards the Denso's.. a little cheaper than the Motorcrafts but I've had good luck with them in the past. Looks like a good time to get a smaller torque wrench while I'm at it.. I've always torqued plugs down the same and never had a issue but maybe my internal gauge is getting off as I get older!

Originally Posted by javacontour
I would spend the money on the back ones.

When I did my daughter's 2005 (or 06) Escape with the 3.0, we bought three new coils for the back bank as the intake comes off. Buy what you want for the front, or re-use good, old coils as they are simple to replace.

Since I was spending her money and my time, good coils and plugs in the back. Good new plugs and the existing coils up front.

It's a long hour to get the intake off to get to the back plugs, so you probably only want to do that job once.



Good point on just buying the good ones for the back. I would have I think 6 possible good COP's and with the bluetooth OBD reader the fronts are pretty easy. I can remove the intake I think in 10 minutes now lol.. I've did it three times. Just unhook what I have to and lay it to the side.


05 Chevy 3500 (Class C RV) 71k
04 Escape 170k
02 Focus 152k
00 Dakota 95k
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334525 01/28/20 10:47 AM
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PowerSurge Offline
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The only aftermarket brand I would use if they’re made for your model is Accel on Fords. I’ve had good luck with them. Otherwise stick to Motorcraft.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334538 01/28/20 10:58 AM
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1978elcamino Offline
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When I had a 4.6 I went through the cheap coils, ebay and amazon, they were all crap. After a couple years of replacing one here and one there I bought a set of Acell coils. The set of 8 cost me 180 bucks but never had to replace another. The MC are too expesive so if you plan to keep it for a while longer plan on at least a name brand set.

Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334580 01/28/20 11:47 AM
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tcp71 Offline
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I’m quite certain Visteon is the manufacturer of Ford’s COP products. When did Denso come into play? The dwell time on aftermarket coils (not sure about denso ) tend to be different than OEM specifications, which can cause grief in many small ways.

https://www.visteon.com/


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: PP 5w30 syn. (varies)
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334589 01/28/20 12:02 PM
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Lubener Offline
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When you switched coils, you didn't mention if the CEL still had a #6 misfire or did it follow the suspect coil to another cylinder ?
Stick with Motorcraft and replace only the bad one. Why did the plug back out? Incorrectly torqued or the use of anti seize which shouldn't be used.

Last edited by Lubener; 01/28/20 12:03 PM.

The "thinking" man's friend.
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334688 01/28/20 02:13 PM
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nthach Offline
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Motorcraft, Denso, Bosch or Hitachi - I stick to OEM or the OEM supplier for coils. NGK bought out Wells and their coils look like Chinesium, like Standard or chain store stuff.

I haven't seen a Ford COP unit - the DIS waste-spark stuff looks like Bosch to me. If the plugs backed off a bit, I'd re-torque them. You don't need too much torque to tighten a tapered-seat plug but did any anti-seize get on the plug seat? I don't think Ford V6s jettison spark plugs like the mod motors can. There is debate about anti-seize, some don't use it - NGK says no need for it with their plating process. Honda requires it, and it's a practice stemming from old school black oxide Autolite/Delco plugs.

Last edited by nthach; 01/28/20 02:18 PM.
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334703 01/28/20 02:37 PM
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2strokeNorthstar Offline
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Mod motors blow the plugs out from incorrect torque also. Tighten to upper end of spec and make sure threads are clean and easy to turn before final torque. I use whatever coils. Spectra premium are My latest choice. On modular motors it is moisture that has killed all I have seen.


2001 F150 5.4L
2013 Nissan Juke Nismo
2000 Honda S2000
1998 BMW 328i
Re: COP's which brand [Re: Eric Smith] #5334795 01/28/20 04:57 PM
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BAJA_05 Offline
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Another vote for strictly Motorcraft spark plugs.


2017 VW Jetta SE TSI 1.4L Turbo (hers)
PP Euro 0W40 & FU (42K)
2008 Acura TL 3.2L PPHM 0W20 & FU (117K)
2005 Subaru Baja AWD 2.5L N/A 5spd.
T6 MV 5W30 & FU (103K)
2000 Ram 4X4 5.2L (93K) T6 MV 5W30 & FU
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