Reason for new car problems

[mpack88]

Last year I purchased a 2018 Taurus with the duratec 3.5L I chosen that one because it wasn't GDI but tried a true multiport. Also have a 1991 taurus with the vulcan 3.0L. Has half the power, but gets the same fuel milage as the new one. I agree they are trying to hard just to squeeze a couple mpg out of cars even so far that its effecting reliability. Gdi has improved economy but it's not worth it if the heads have to be remove carbon begind the valves. My 88 ford truck also efi still runs strong and regular gets 15mpg. I rented a 2018 expedition with the 3.5eb which was getting the same. So I guess if you drive it easy which no one does it would get better. Really they just want hot rods. Most cars nowadays are built for power not for gas milage.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
This pertains to all the new cars and trucks. Junk parts that are not made in house and in the manufactures country. And is why everything is junk now.

Didn't watch the video. But now I wonder: did people in the (1930's? 1940's? 1950's? 1960's? 1970's? 1980's? 1990's?) sit around and chat about how wonderful their cars were, how long lived and how well designed, and how they never failed, etc?



Good point. If everything is junk now, when weren't they junk?

Easy one. When they only cost $2000. or under for a new vehicle.



And to prove they were the best of the best. If you would have spent $2000. for a certain new vehicle in the 1955 to 1959 area, sealed it up in a container. You could now sell it for over $200,000.
After that time period car and truck styling went down the garbage hole. And has never come back. Oh there have been a few nice designs but those end up being only vehicles movie stars can afford.
And like anything if older vehicles were taken car of they would last. The good thing in those days you didn't have some fancy $2500. computer that may need to be changed like now.

Oh and best of all you didn't have to worry about the possibility of one of the front spindles being made in china, and possibly breaking off driving down the freeway at 60 MPH and throwing the vehicle out of control and getting killed.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
This pertains to all the new cars and trucks. Junk parts that are not made in house and in the manufactures country. And is why everything is junk now.

Didn't watch the video. But now I wonder: did people in the (1930's? 1940's? 1950's? 1960's? 1970's? 1980's? 1990's?) sit around and chat about how wonderful their cars were, how long lived and how well designed, and how they never failed, etc?



Good point. If everything is junk now, when weren't they junk?

Easy one. When they only cost $2000. or under for a new vehicle.



And to prove they were the best of the best. If you would have spent $2000. for a certain new vehicle in the 1955 to 1959 area, sealed it up in a container. You could now sell it for over $200,000.
After that time period car and truck styling went down the garbage hole. And has never come back. Oh there have been a few nice designs but those end up being only vehicles movie stars can afford.
And like anything if older vehicles were taken car of they would last. The good thing in those days you didn't have some fancy $2500. computer that may need to be changed like now.

Oh and best of all you didn't have to worry about the possibility of one of the front spindles being made in china, and possibly breaking off driving down the freeway at 60 MPH and throwing the vehicle out of control and getting killed.


$2,000 in 1955 is equivalent to $19,078 today. I'll take a car built today over a car that folds in half while impaling me with a steering column in the event of an accident.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Skippy722


$2,000 in 1955 is equivalent to $19,078 today. I'll take a car built today over a car that folds in half while impaling me with a steering column in the event of an accident.


Apparently the nostalgia calculator doesn't factor in inflation

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Skippy722


$2,000 in 1955 is equivalent to $19,078 today. I'll take a car built today over a car that folds in half while impaling me with a steering column in the event of an accident.


Apparently the nostalgia calculator doesn't factor in inflation

It never does...

I will give him the styling aspect of it. Something like a 1959 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer or a 1958 Bel Air

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Skippy722


$2,000 in 1955 is equivalent to $19,078 today. I'll take a car built today over a car that folds in half while impaling me with a steering column in the event of an accident.


Apparently the nostalgia calculator doesn't factor in inflation

It never does...

I will give him the styling aspect of it. Something like a 1959 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer or a 1958 Bel Air

My favourites were the late 60's like the Charger and BOSS 429/BOSS 302. Heck, even the Camaro looked good then

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by Toyt1219
I used to think my 1997 Camry xle v6 was as good as a car could get. Simple robust systems with good build quality.

My 2012 Camry has actually been more maintenance free, however, the 1997 seemed more solid.

My experience would mirror that--my '99 has needed a "pile" of work yet my wife's '11 has been pretty much free of anything not in the manual (outside of brakes once and a battery, and a bunch of tires). But her car seems big, floaty, isolated, and not of quality. It's getting the job done, but nothing about it invokes any sort of feeling--other than sleepiness. Then again my '99 isn't exactly a riot to drive.

It's just dirt simple.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Toyt1219
I used to think my 1997 Camry xle v6 was as good as a car could get. Simple robust systems with good build quality.

My 2012 Camry has actually been more maintenance free, however, the 1997 seemed more solid.

My experience would mirror that--my '99 has needed a "pile" of work yet my wife's '11 has been pretty much free of anything not in the manual (outside of brakes once and a battery, and a bunch of tires). But her car seems big, floaty, isolated, and not of quality. It's getting the job done, but nothing about it invokes any sort of feeling--other than sleepiness. Then again my '99 isn't exactly a riot to drive.

It's just dirt simple.



There's something about many newer cars that just makes them feel "cheap" or I guess a better phrase would be built to a price point. A friend (the one with the 08 Taco) recently picked up a 2000 Honda Civic with 158k miles for 1500 bucks as a commuter car. He drives 90-100 miles a day like I do, and the Taco is getting very expensive fuel-wise. I drove the Civic the 40 miles back to his house, and it felt very solid. Obviously being a 2000s Honda it had the typical road and wind noise of an economy car, but there were zero clunks, and zero rattles. The car has been well maintained, but so has his mom's 2011 Civic. The 2011 has plenty of rattles and buzzing sounds in comparison, with similar mileage. Same with the 2008 Tacoma, lots of rattles on the inside.

The same can be said when comparing my 2009 BMW E90 to a friend's 2015 F30 335i. His has less miles and he complains how mine has virtually no interior rattles and his has many.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Toyt1219
I used to think my 1997 Camry xle v6 was as good as a car could get. Simple robust systems with good build quality.

My 2012 Camry has actually been more maintenance free, however, the 1997 seemed more solid.

My experience would mirror that--my '99 has needed a "pile" of work yet my wife's '11 has been pretty much free of anything not in the manual (outside of brakes once and a battery, and a bunch of tires). But her car seems big, floaty, isolated, and not of quality. It's getting the job done, but nothing about it invokes any sort of feeling--other than sleepiness. Then again my '99 isn't exactly a riot to drive.

It's just dirt simple.



There's something about many newer cars that just makes them feel "cheap" or I guess a better phrase would be built to a price point. A friend (the one with the 08 Taco) recently picked up a 2000 Honda Civic with 158k miles for 1500 bucks as a commuter car. He drives 90-100 miles a day like I do, and the Taco is getting very expensive fuel-wise. I drove the Civic the 40 miles back to his house, and it felt very solid. Obviously being a 2000s Honda it had the typical road and wind noise of an economy car, but there were zero clunks, and zero rattles. The car has been well maintained, but so has his mom's 2011 Civic. The 2011 has plenty of rattles and buzzing sounds in comparison, with similar mileage. Same with the 2008 Tacoma, lots of rattles on the inside.

The same can be said when comparing my 2009 BMW E90 to a friend's 2015 F30 335i. His has less miles and he complains how mine has virtually no interior rattles and his has many.

It's probably because all the parts either fell off or rubbed enough to get enough clearance to stop the squeak!

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by supton


It's probably because all the parts either fell off or rubbed enough to get enough clearance to stop the squeak!

You are probably right.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Toyt1219
I used to think my 1997 Camry xle v6 was as good as a car could get. Simple robust systems with good build quality.

My 2012 Camry has actually been more maintenance free, however, the 1997 seemed more solid.

My experience would mirror that--my '99 has needed a "pile" of work yet my wife's '11 has been pretty much free of anything not in the manual (outside of brakes once and a battery, and a bunch of tires). But her car seems big, floaty, isolated, and not of quality. It's getting the job done, but nothing about it invokes any sort of feeling--other than sleepiness. Then again my '99 isn't exactly a riot to drive.

It's just dirt simple.


Just curious what type of work it's needed (besides regular maintenance). I see a ton of those cars driving around. You also have to keep in mind the 2011 is less than ten years old and the 99 is over 20 now.

My 83 Caprice has needed "a pile of work", but it's 36 years old. It's always something little breaking, like cigarette lighter, blower motor, door lock cylinders freezing up (the latest repair), the list goes on. But never anything major.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Just curious what type of work it's needed (besides regular maintenance). I see a ton of those cars driving around. You also have to keep in mind the 2011 is less than ten years old and the 99 is over 20 now.

The 2011, it lost a rear pad around 55k--froze in place, I had been letting the dealer service (long story). I did a quick pad slap at 60k but the Federated pads started to delaminate (rust jack?) around the 100k mark and the rotor that had the original bad pad was badly rusted, so I did OEM pads & rotors at the 100k mark. Around 120k I noticed a front pad was delaminating so new pads & rotors at 125k up front (still had 3/4 life left). New battery around that time too (5 years) as it's the wife's and in the dead of winter it was starting to sound like it was cranking more slowly. Did have some baffle pop out of the intake tract but it pushed back in. Couple alignments, it appears that it will need one more often now (at least every 2 years, although maybe once a year won't be a bad idea).

The 1999, let's see... it came with some receipts, the PO had a t-stat replaced due to no heat, the charcoal canister replaced due to a CEL, a starter and all four swaybar end links. I think I have a receipt for the headlight replacement (housings, which they botched badly and I only have slightly better aimed). The struts were not original. I did right off the bat:
-new tires and new struts, to fix a ride issue (struts didn't do the job but getting rid of Mastercraft Strategies sure did)
-near rear wheel bearings
-flushed the transmission
-had to do a timing belt as it suddenly started leaking oil--oil pump seal. TB had been done in the past but VC gasket and oil pump seal went bad. Oil pressure switch went bad at the same time. I think the PCV valve broke at the same time too (snapped while doing this job)

That shored things up in the first few months, and I consider that all part of getting it into good shape (it had 140k at the time). Almost made it a year before the flex pipe went out. Made it another 1.5 years then in one month it needed a new radiator, alternator, shifter cable, sway bar end links. Around that time I noticed a slow oil leak so I did the oil pan gasket. Then a windshield this fall, and recently a battery. It still has an oil leak someplace, I just keep cardboard under it in the garage. Needs an alignment yearly now, the toe is always off, and it's still wearing rear tires despite its last alignment.

Timing belt is coming up soon too, although I'll wait until the weather is nice before digging into that.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Just curious what type of work it's needed (besides regular maintenance). I see a ton of those cars driving around. You also have to keep in mind the 2011 is less than ten years old and the 99 is over 20 now.

The 2011, it lost a rear pad around 55k--froze in place, I had been letting the dealer service (long story). I did a quick pad slap at 60k but the Federated pads started to delaminate (rust jack?) around the 100k mark and the rotor that had the original bad pad was badly rusted, so I did OEM pads & rotors at the 100k mark. Around 120k I noticed a front pad was delaminating so new pads & rotors at 125k up front (still had 3/4 life left). New battery around that time too (5 years) as it's the wife's and in the dead of winter it was starting to sound like it was cranking more slowly. Did have some baffle pop out of the intake tract but it pushed back in. Couple alignments, it appears that it will need one more often now (at least every 2 years, although maybe once a year won't be a bad idea).

The 1999, let's see... it came with some receipts, the PO had a t-stat replaced due to no heat, the charcoal canister replaced due to a CEL, a starter and all four swaybar end links. I think I have a receipt for the headlight replacement (housings, which they botched badly and I only have slightly better aimed). The struts were not original. I did right off the bat:
-new tires and new struts, to fix a ride issue (struts didn't do the job but getting rid of Mastercraft Strategies sure did)
-near rear wheel bearings
-flushed the transmission
-had to do a timing belt as it suddenly started leaking oil--oil pump seal. TB had been done in the past but VC gasket and oil pump seal went bad. Oil pressure switch went bad at the same time. I think the PCV valve broke at the same time too (snapped while doing this job)

That shored things up in the first few months, and I consider that all part of getting it into good shape (it had 140k at the time). Almost made it a year before the flex pipe went out. Made it another 1.5 years then in one month it needed a new radiator, alternator, shifter cable, sway bar end links. Around that time I noticed a slow oil leak so I did the oil pan gasket. Then a windshield this fall, and recently a battery. It still has an oil leak someplace, I just keep cardboard under it in the garage. Needs an alignment yearly now, the toe is always off, and it's still wearing rear tires despite its last alignment.

Timing belt is coming up soon too, although I'll wait until the weather is nice before digging into that.


Sounds like owning a 99 isn't much different than owning my 83 with 240k miles. Hopefully this will talk me out of moving up a couple decades.

I'm getting worried about the original timing chain and (possibly original) water pump on mine. Starter and alternator have been replaced recently. Carburetor is an original off an 85. Cleaned up but not rebuilt yet. Hoping all this stuff holds up until I can save up to swap my 5.3 truck motor in.

I'm also due for a thermostat and coolant flush, transmission fluid and filter. I should replace all the vacuum hoses before they start falling apart on me too. I can always find something that should be done.

 

[supton]

If you're going to do a swap then I'd hold off. I'm guessing they didn't use a nylon gear back in '83? Kinda dubious it would have made it this far if they did! Most of that stuff can wait for engine swap time.

An LS swap ought to be fun. I've wondered about doing likewise, like a 4.8/4L60 swap on the cheap, nothing high power but probably vastly better than anything from the 80's (well the plain janes anyhow). Any plans for the rest of the platform? Mo' power needs mo' stopping (and steering).

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by supton
If you're going to do a swap then I'd hold off. I'm guessing they didn't use a nylon gear back in '83? Kinda dubious it would have made it this far if they did! Most of that stuff can wait for engine swap time.

An LS swap ought to be fun. I've wondered about doing likewise, like a 4.8/4L60 swap on the cheap, nothing high power but probably vastly better than anything from the 80's (well the plain janes anyhow). Any plans for the rest of the platform? Mo' power needs mo' stopping (and steering).


Afaik it came with the nylon gears. They might have been replaced 20+ years ago, I don't know for sure. There is a little timing chain slop but not yet excessive. I replaced the original nylon timing gears in a 307 Olds with 160k miles on it and they were not yet falling apart. The water pump looks the same shade of surface rust as the rest of the engine so I kind of doubt it's been apart. I'm just hoping the water pump hangs in there until ls swap time.

The rear end is already the beefier posi 8.5" unit. Eventually I'd like to upgrade the brakes the larger police spec ones, maybe disc brakes on the rear since I hate doing drum brakes (just did them last fall on this car). I will upgrade the springs and shocks when I get around to it. They are the ones that were on it 10 years ago when I bought it, somehow still hanging in there. Not too bouncy and handles good for a big car.

Until I get all my debt paid off I don't have a lot of budget for car repairs/upgrades.

The 4.8 is all I would really need in this car but somehow I ended up with 2 5.3s for cheap so I won't complain. My 4 wheel drive work truck with the 4.8 feels like it would smoke my 305. I did barely beat a friend's 2 wheel drive 4.8 truck once a couple years ago but his truck had 400k miles on it.

 

[super20dan]

an LS is indeed better than anythihg from the 80.s

 

[caprice_2nv]

Reliability is the only thing the 305 has going for it. Mechanical fuel pump, no ECM etc. Other than that, yes the ls is far superior in every way.