Thoughts on redline?

Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
Red Line is a great oil and would do fine in your car. If you are looking for that portion of ester content that does have quantifiable benefits you are well informed to skip the darlings recommended by the cheap weasels that are attacking you.
If you desire a real group lV/V that has real approvals check out Ravenol.

What quantities would the OP look at to show the benefits? I used Redline white bottle once in my old BMW due to a lifter tick. That turned out to be air in the lifter which was corrected by following the instructions in a BMW service bulletin. But what would I have looked at to see what benefits I was getting from the use of Redline?
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Redline 5w-30 Professional = HTHS 3.2.
Phillips 66 5w-30 Shield Armor Full Synthetic Motor Oil = HTHS 3.0.

Rounding error?

Well it would be reproducibility, not rounding error. I can't find a "free" copy of ASTM 4741 to find out the value, but for similar ASTM methods it is somewhere around 3-4%. It may be different for ASTM 4741 since this is the new and improved method of determining HTHS.


Don't worry yourself with that, he was just looking at the wrong P66 product, the 5w-30 is rebottled Shield Valor not Shield Armor.

I wasn't looking at the "wrong" P66 product, I was looking at a "different" P66 product.

At the time of my post, you hadn't referenced P66 Shield Valor (or the previous BITIG thread).

At any rate, it does appear that some Redline products are repackaged P66 products. Disappointing.

No hostilities from my keyboard,

Scott
 
Until AZ has a blow out and I'm flush with M1 AP / VME / RGT
That bottle is a dead give away P66 et al - they have some of the AC Delco contract - same bottle
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
Red Line is a great oil and would do fine in your car. If you are looking for that portion of ester content that does have quantifiable benefits you are well informed to skip the darlings recommended by the cheap weasels that are attacking you.
If you desire a real group lV/V that has real approvals check out Ravenol.


Again, no one is attacking the OP; he came here and asked for our opinions. I just re-read the thread and see some negative comments about Redline and the OP's desire to use Redline, but not a single attack on the OP himself.

Also, I, for one, don't cheap out on oil: I find a happy medium. While I think that Supertech is perfectly fine and the benefits of "upgrading" to something better is debatable, top-tier oils go on sale multiple times throughout the year for around the same price as Supertech (or cheaper,) so why not? I just purchased 5-quart jugs of Magnatec D1G2 for $16 each. Including an FU filter, that's <$30 for a 6-quart oil change. Not too bad.
 
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters for a reasonable priceat Walmart or on-sale just about anywhere, including auto parts stores when on clearance, Amazon, etc. or with rebate"



I fixed that for you...

Not all of us have money burning holes in our pockets.
 
Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters for a reasonable priceat Walmart or on-sale just about anywhere, including auto parts stores when on clearance, Amazon, etc. or with rebate"



I fixed that for you...

Not all of us have money burning holes in our pockets.



I'll be fine with the Schaeffers oil I get from Napa ...Ž

OP,

If you want to try Redline, give it a go, don't let people tell you how to spend your money.
 
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I remember lurking this site back in the early days when there was a wealth of information being posted daily. Nowadays, it seems the majority here are just looking for the cheapest oil that'll go the longest interval with little regard for technical information. Marketing mumbo jumbo is held in high regards, as if it was gospel, and god forbid anything get posted to the contrary or you're in for an argument. Then everybody wonders why the majority of knowledgeable members have left the site.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I remember lurking this site back in the early days when there was a wealth of information being posted daily. Nowadays, it seems the majority here are just looking for the cheapest oil that'll go the longest interval with little regard for technical information. Marketing mumbo jumbo is held in high regards, as if it was gospel, and god forbid anything get posted to the contrary or you're in for an argument. Then everybody wonders why the majority of knowledgeable members have left the site.


Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I remember lurking this site back in the early days when there was a wealth of information being posted daily. Nowadays, it seems the majority here are just looking for the cheapest oil that'll go the longest interval with little regard for technical information. Marketing mumbo jumbo is held in high regards, as if it was gospel, and god forbid anything get posted to the contrary or you're in for an argument. Then everybody wonders why the majority of knowledgeable members have left the site.


Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.

Yes indeed, very well said. And to expand on your comment, I will never understand why people strive for the longest possible OCI on a brand new vehicle - eeking their TBN down to 1.0 - just to save $75 on an oil change.

Scott
 
It is strange how people are responded to on this board. I belong to many different boards covering a myriad of subjects that interest me. There seems to be a core of folks on here that aren't happy unless they are demeaning towards others. This is the only board where I have actually blocked someone. It is amusing because he replies to nearly all my posts but I have no idea what his comments are unless they are quoted. There is some good info to be had here. There are some extremely knowledgeable folks that lend their knowledge in a civil manner. There are also the tools that come out of the woodwork for nearly any post on any subject and slam the OP or others for not believing what they espouse. A decade ago I belonged to an automotive board that had many thousands of members and many thousands of posts/responses a day. A small cadre of folks banded together on this board and made it exclusionary if posters didn't fall within their acceptance. That board still exists today, it gets a few dozen posts a day now. The owner of the board was offered some pretty decent money for it back in the day and turned it down. I bet he wished he would have taken it now. Just goes to show that a board is only as good as its members.
 
I am smiling while typing with compassion and understanding for the OP.

I think Redline may be the "best" group of products you can buy. My issue is I have moved into the shorter OCI camp and I just can't quite justify the price of Redline with a shorter OCI. If I had the resources, I'd consider Redline and a 5K OCI. I'd need to go 10K OCI to justify the cost.

I'm with you Scott. I can do a Pennzoil, Quaker State, etc oil change with OEM oil filter for less than $25 every 3K. It sure makes me warm and fuzzy when I change my own oil and it doesn't come out black as tar.

I'd call redline and ask them a few questions. Get the weight they recommend. It's a first class operation.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what are those quantifiable benefits of esters?


Better miscibility and solubility at lower temperatures ensures better distribution of additives throughout the engine. The greater solubility promotes the cleaning of varnish and sludge. It also has better high temperature protection which is what gives RL their high HTHS ratings. Esters are also excellent seal conditioners.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what are those quantifiable benefits of esters?
Better miscibility and solubility at lower temperatures ensures better distribution of additives throughout the engine. The greater solubility promotes the cleaning of varnish and sludge. It also has better high temperature protection which is what gives RL their high HTHS ratings. Esters are also excellent seal conditioners.

All of which is fine, and thanks for the response. But how are they quantifiable? What quantities would I look at to show that an oil with esters is better than another one without esters? The only one you really state would be HTHS, but non-ester oils also can have a high HTHS, correct?
 
Sometimes we inadvertently walk into traps.
happy2.gif
 
One of the main reasons I use RL HP oils and fluids is some of my rides are not DDs. They go long time intervals, not miles, and I want the best there is protecting these cars
 
There are still a lot of very knowledgeable members on this forum. Even though I've been around for a bit, and lurking even longer, I still consider myself a newb. I joined to learn about tribological theory on one hand, but also to ask a bunch of newb questions, like, "Which oil is best for my vehicle." I had a sporty car when I first joined that was known to have internal weaknesses and manufacturing issues, so I sent out samples for analysis often. I was also keen on following the data, so I ran longer OCI's than many who hadn't performed UOA recommended. It was fun and I learned a lot.

The one take-away I have from this place, after all that I've learned, is that oil choice largely hasn't mattered for a lot of us over the years; just about any oil would work and the body of most vehicles will rust away before the engine has an oil-related issue; that is barring any design flaw that might require a better oil or shorter interval to, say, combat a poor timing chain design that results in chain stretch, excessive guide wear, etc.

Now, I'm not saying that the cheapest oil that meets the spec is ALWAYS the right call. Some people have very specific concerns, based on engine design, driving habits, OCI expectations:

1. I'm concerned about valve deposits in my DIT, so I've learned that a D1G2, GF-6, SN+ or any future oil spec'd with fewer additives-of-concern re: LSPI, designed with a lower NOACK, etc. are likely prudent. In this case, I'm interested in new spec's and continue to read on here as things develop regarding both concerns. If someone proved that my DIT would last appreciably longer using something like Redline, I'd very strongly consider it.

2. When it comes to my MPI Legacy; however, just about any oil at a reasonable interval will suffice. It will likely go to the wrecker due to rust or when the CVT goes out at 200k miles (knocks on wood) and I find out they're still charging upwards of $8k for a replacement. I still choose to run a "better" oil, but that's because it's inexpensive to run just about any name-brand oil, since they're always on-sale!

3. If I tracked, auto-X or drove my vehicles in any way that caused me to believe a boutique oil would be even remotely beneficial, I'd also consider doing so. I did in my STI, but don't feel that it's necessary for either of my current vehicles. If I solicited advice on here about which oil to run, I'd include that I occasionally drive aggressively (mostly in the FXT and mostly to knock the cobwebs off/out of the DIT, since my wife does plenty of short-tripping now that we've moved closer to the city and, well, because it's fun!) Normally, around 99.9% of the time (especially in the slow FB25-powered Legacy), I drive conservatively and defensively as far as the engine is concerned, anyway.

The OP hasn't given us any real reason for why he wants to run Redline. Barring any real reason for doing so, nor any inclination that he might provide us with a UOA or some other objective data we can then discuss after-the-fact, why is it wrong for us to want to prudently steer the OP towards any on of the mainer cheaper oils that will still likely exceed his needs? We're not talking about whether detailing/waxing his car twice a year will help resale value ten years from now or whether a top-tier fuel over Joe's No-Brand gas is likely prudent, wherein there objectively might be some benefit. Barring any more information, and with such a generic request about a brand of oil, not specific oil, I think we can objectively conclude that we don't have enough information to answer the OP's question, and that, regardless, it's not likely in the OP's best interest to simply try Redline for trying's sake.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what are those quantifiable benefits of esters?
Better miscibility and solubility at lower temperatures ensures better distribution of additives throughout the engine. The greater solubility promotes the cleaning of varnish and sludge. It also has better high temperature protection which is what gives RL their high HTHS ratings. Esters are also excellent seal conditioners.

All of which is fine, and thanks for the response. But how are they quantifiable? What quantities would I look at to show that an oil with esters is better than another one without esters? The only one you really state would be HTHS, but non-ester oils also can have a high HTHS, correct?


I've seen compression numbers increase after using Red Line (and other high ester oils) due to the high ester content cleaning up carbon deposits around the pistons and rings. I've seen valve seal and rear main seal leaks slow and even stop. I've seen the inside of valve covers and cylinder heads get cleaned up very well from it.

BTW, all oils contain esters to some extent. ZDDP, the most common anti-wear additive in engine oils, is itself an ester. Seal conditioning additives are also esters. Even Chevron's new ZDDP-free oil most certainly contains esters in the form of molyvan 855 (moly-ester) and/or ionic esters. These are in concentrations
Another thing is the mindset. You can't look at it as high ester oils being better than others. It's a matter of the application. An Accord that cruises down the highway for 80% of its life probably won't see much benefit. One that sits in LA or NYC traffic for most of it's life, or regularly finds itself climbing steep grades in the mountains, could be a different story. Even if you are in the group that just cruises down the highway, the solvency and seal conditioning isn't a bad thing to have.
 
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I remember lurking this site back in the early days when there was a wealth of information being posted daily. Nowadays, it seems the majority here are just looking for the cheapest oil that'll go the longest interval with little regard for technical information. Marketing mumbo jumbo is held in high regards, as if it was gospel, and god forbid anything get posted to the contrary or you're in for an argument. Then everybody wonders why the majority of knowledgeable members have left the site.


Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.





Agreed!
 
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