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Filter Brand Quality Change? #5331399 01/24/20 09:21 PM
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BBDartCA Offline OP
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Over the last decade or so, has any brand of filter had a major change in quality? Better or worse. I’ve been away from BITOG for a while. It seems way back, Fram was frowned upon and Purolator praised. Now it looks like the opposite. Professionally I’ve seen M&H get cheapened up over the last few years.

Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5331406 01/24/20 09:36 PM
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Posts: 5,959
JohnnyJohnson Offline
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Yep its a moving target isn't it.


2004 Corolla 138781
Out: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 10-29-19 136457
In: Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W-20 ST 4386
2006 Duramax 77060
Out: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73909
In: Rotella Dino PH9100 11-3-19
Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5331411 01/24/20 09:43 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,729
SubieRubyRoo Offline
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"Cheapening" the product is the aim of literally every product ever sold to maximize shareholder profits. Most try to balance cost savings while maintaining a certain level of quality.

Fram Ultra is top tier. Tough Guard and Extended Guard have come a long way. "Basic" Purolators are probably a hit-or-miss. Mobil 1 filters apparently had a slight downgrade when the mileage limit was changed to meet Annual Protection mileage ratings. Napa Golds are still generally rock solid.

But, apart from a filter failure, there's little data to show any long-term benefit when changing oil and filter at manufacturer recommended OCIs. Differences only start to become noticeable when significantly lengthening OCIs past recommended change times, which even though extensively discussed, few on the board actually do.

One looking to maintain vehicles with a minimum expenditure could pick just about any oil that meets the required certifications, along with any Fram, Mobil, Napa, Wix, even SuperTech filter and change at recommended mileage and/or MM/OLM and never see any detrimental results compared to someone who only used Redline oil and an Amsoil bypass system, for example. The basic overall standards for oils and filters have come a loooooong way in the past decade for what's available on your local Walmart shelves. But, like, that's just this one dude's opinion, man. smile Welcome back!


De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5331512 01/25/20 02:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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Originally Posted by BBDartCA
Over the last decade or so, has any brand of filter had a major change in quality? Better or worse. I’ve been away from BITOG for a while. It seems way back, Fram was frowned upon and Purolator praised. Now it looks like the opposite. Professionally I’ve seen M&H get cheapened up over the last few years.

If you aren't looking to swim in deep water, Wix, Napa Gold and Fram Toughguard are on the same mid-tier ladder-rung as 10 years ago.
OEMs are always a safe bet.
K&N and Mobil-1 are similar filters to 10 years ago.
If you've been in a technology coma for the past 10 years, Fram Extra Guard has improved. Fram Ultra is new. Some Purolator & Motorcraft have tear issues.
AC Delco has nosedived too. Eliminated most-all of their silicone ADBVs and gone heavy into Ecores.


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Keepa' Ya' Pistons, Valves & Injectors Clean
19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI / 20' Kia Soul XLine 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 Mobil1 Filters



Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5331525 01/25/20 03:02 AM
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GMBoy Offline
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by BBDartCA
Over the last decade or so, has any brand of filter had a major change in quality? Better or worse. I’ve been away from BITOG for a while. It seems way back, Fram was frowned upon and Purolator praised. Now it looks like the opposite. Professionally I’ve seen M&H get cheapened up over the last few years.

If you aren't looking to swim in deep water, Wix, Napa Gold and Fram Toughguard are on the same mid-tier ladder-rung as 10 years ago.
OEMs are always a safe bet.
K&N and Mobil-1 are similar filters to 10 years ago.
If you've been in a technology coma for the past 10 years, Fram Extra Guard has improved. Fram Ultra is new. Some Purolator & Motorcraft have tear issues.
AC Delco has nosedived too. Eliminated most-all of their silicone ADBVs and gone heavy into Ecores.


This is the BEST summary right here ^^^^^

Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5331587 01/25/20 07:11 AM
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Kira Offline
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Just my 2¢:
I keep it WIX, Hastings and Fram Ultra for the family and the Hummel-Mann/Hengst/Mahle cartridges for the Volvo.
And 'yes' to OEM.

BROKEN HEART Dept.:
In all the years of servicing all the Saabs in the family I recall only ACDelco providing the huge gush of top end oil upon removal.
I took that to mean their's was the only one with a WORKING ADBV.
These were always 10241 series filters (among THE most common on Earth at the time)
Sorry to hear they've gone downhill.

Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5331669 01/25/20 08:45 AM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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I can only guess that the vehicle manufacturers ask all their part suppliers for lighter products, to help improve stringent MPG laws the USA government implements.
Does it explain why Ecore plastic cages exist on so many GM models?.....perhaps. Does it explain why Fram uses fiber endcaps?..... perhaps too.


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Keepa' Ya' Pistons, Valves & Injectors Clean
19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI / 20' Kia Soul XLine 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 Mobil1 Filters



Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5331721 01/25/20 09:59 AM
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Farnsworth Offline
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I think the quality is better for all brands than years ago. It is easy to be nostalgic about the good old days when products actually were often pretty shoddy.

Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5341100 02/04/20 05:50 PM
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Pete44 Offline
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I'm one who's "swimming in deep water" here. In other words, I'm extending my intervals to 20,000 miles. Anyone who rolls their eyes at this point need not read on. My experiences and testing may be helpful to some, however, and I'd appreciate constructive input from those with some significant knowledge here.

Running a 1.8L Toyota engine (2013 Lexus CT200h hybrid). I used to drive turbo 2.0 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions (yes, several) and modified those dramatically. Have one for sale in Albuquerque that makes 1000 hp at the 4 wheels. Dyno graph proven. Just broken in and then tuned. Just in case someone wants it.

I got a hybrid to change my driving and my psyche. It has worked beautifully. I drive like a grandma, only speeding my acceleration up a bit so I don't make people behind me mad. I'm a VERY easy driver on this car, make my tires and brakes last a long time, and expect to make the engine last a very long time, as well. The engine doesn't work much, since the electric motor is helping a lot of the time. I warm up the engine before driving.
I put Redline in the transmission at about 50,000 miles and I used to change the oil with Mobil-1 0W-20 and Mobil-1 filter every 6,000 miles (maybe 10k). My factory-original brake pads still have a lot of "meat" on them and rotors feel pretty smooth at 85,000 because I use the regenerative slowing of the drivetrain mostly. This is to give you a sense of how easy I am on the engine.

So, having said all that, and having three reasons for extended oil change intervals, I'm looking for some advice and input.

Filter:
I came on here today to do research before stocking my next filter. For some un-recalled reason, I switched from Mobil-1 filters to a Purolator PurOne. I had done some research and reading and decided that would be my "go-to" filter from here on. Toyota filters are high-quality as well, but I think they're more expensive, from what I recall.
I went to buy the Purolator One filter and saw the Purolator Boss filters. Didn't figure it was worth the extra money (extra $10 at parts store...usually I order online ahead of time).
I have sent my first 20,000 mi oil sample to Blackstone and will share analysis when it comes back. Filter looked pretty good and oil looked like most oil I've changed at "normal" intervals in many vehicles (including airplanes). I have little doubt that it'll be a reassuring analysis, but wanted to make certain before I continue with these 20,000 mi OCI's for the next several years.

Oil:
Interested in looking at Blackstone analysis (Mobil-1 Annual Protection was in there for 20k miles and is what I put in again). I'd be interested if, as Blackstone reports, all the oils are very similar and it really makes little difference. I am under the impression that, with extended OCI's, the added KOH (potassium hydroxide) in the annual protection formula will protect a bit against acid build-up. We'll see what the Total Base Number is from Blackstone. Any input as to experience with extended OCI's and different oils (particularly with analysis) would be greatly appreciated. Amsoil? Redline? Worth the expense? Anyone doing extended OCI's with "cheap" oil with good results? That would be truly the interesting test. Also, perhaps someone has added a bit of base to their oil after 10,000 miles ??? Sounds to me like a ripe market for "oil conditioner" to extend between OCI's.

Just so people don't think I do this 20,000 mile OCI willy-nilly, I run a Nissan Xterra and change oil every 6-8k, Mitsubishi turbos were every 5k except the high horsepower one (every 3K on straight 50w), and airplanes all get changed at manufacturers recommended intervals (based on hours of operation). Engine failures in those would be a bit more anxiety-provoking...plus, the airplanes have to run 1950's technology engines and they're air-cooled (except the Rotax 912ULS, which has liquid-cooled heads).

Anyway, sorry to go on and on, but I'm really looking forward to provoking some input from some knowledgeable people on here and I'm a detail oriented guy, but like to solve a problem fully and move on. Thus, if I can reliably run 20k mile OCI's and do it with a less-expensive filter and oil, I'll do that for the next decade.

Thank you all for reading!!


Last edited by Pete44; 02/04/20 05:52 PM.
Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5341112 02/04/20 06:00 PM
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nthach Offline
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

AC Delco has nosedived too. Eliminated most-all of their silicone ADBVs and gone heavy into Ecores.

Years ago, GM did make their own filters, spark plugs, batteries and little things of that sort. I remember as a kid seeing a Delco oil filter compared to a Fram and it looked different. Now, GM has outsourced all of that.

Toyota was proud to boast their "crystal" element oil filters with the media folded twice and their yellow treated dual-layer media on their air filters. Not anymore.

Re: Filter Brand Quality Change? [Re: BBDartCA] #5346759 02/10/20 10:57 PM
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Pete44 Offline
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Update from above post. Blackstone came back better than I expected even! Wow! I'm elated.
Still need to figure out what filter to use, long-term. Got pretty lucky with the Purolator PurOne (now changed to "Purolator One"...not sure if there's a difference in the filter vs just the name). I wish I'd saved the filter and cut it and spread out the media as there have been a lot of questions on here about how the filter was. It looked good and no tears that I could detect. I didn't spread all the pleats that well though.
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