Extended life destroys copper?

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I don't care what these older cars recommend. When Prestone has a coolant that fits all makes all models and can run 5 years over 3 and I run it in my 75 ford with a new copper radiator, will it destroy the radiator? Seems more sensible and economical to use extended life over conventional coolant.
 
Originally Posted by Cressida
Originally Posted by Chris142
I work at a Radiator shop. Dexcool and the Dexclone coolants eat the solder that holds the copper parts together..


^ Exactly, yet some people still don't believe this happens...


Dexcool is still used today by Ford, GM and Chrysler. Granted the Chrysler version isn't exact but it's a similar formulation nonetheless.

I do think Dexcool is not to be messed with. If that's what's in your engine, don't mix it with anything else. I can't help but wonder if abuse, neglect, ignorance (by owners) etc. is what gives it the bad rep. *ignorance as in any coolant can be mixed with anything.

Im also curious to know what cars have copper radiator internals soldered together.
 
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As I have stated many times, we run our factory coolant to well in excess of 200k miles regularly. Dex is a huge non-issue. We never touch it until something breaks and we have to dump it for repairs.

Amazing problem, and for the record there isn't a spec of copper anywhere in our GM fleet truck's radiators.
 
Originally Posted by mpack88
I don't care what these older cars recommend. When Prestone has a coolant that fits all makes all models and can run 5 years over 3 and I run it in my 75 ford with a new copper radiator, will it destroy the radiator? Seems more sensible and economical to use extended life over conventional coolant.

Okay, if you don't care then I'll stop caring too. It would have been a good baseline for the discussion (if you wanted it to be a technical discussion that is).
 
I think the tests that should be indicators of coolant corrosion in different metals are ASTM D1384 and D2570.
I did a fair bit of digging looking at coolant a while back, the test results for these tests weren't readily available from too many manufacturers.
My understanding is that ASTM D3306 and D6210 include those tests, but are just a 'meets the spec' indicator. The results of D1384 and D2570 would show underlying differences.
 
I all I want to know is will prestone extended life antifreeze destroy copper? Wanst a question about dexcool. I dont know enough about the chemistry of coolants to talk about it j just want to see proof of this hear say that's going on about extended life destroying copper. So far all I'm getting is run conventional but I already have extended life in it. I dont want to dump it if I dont have to. Just give me a yes or no answer. Then tell me why. That is all.
 
Originally Posted by mpack88
I all I want to know is will prestone extended life antifreeze destroy copper?

Copper will be fine - it's part of the ASTM spec when coolants are tested and all coolants contain an azole(nitrogen-containing compound) to protect copper and other yellow metals(brass and bronze).
 
Originally Posted by Wheel
I think the tests that should be indicators of coolant corrosion in different metals are ASTM D1384 and D2570.
I did a fair bit of digging looking at coolant a while back, the test results for these tests weren't readily available from too many manufacturers.
My understanding is that ASTM D3306 and D6210 include those tests, but are just a 'meets the spec' indicator. The results of D1384 and D2570 would show underlying differences.



Valvoline publishes all corrosion results for all the Zerex coolants for the ASTM D1384 and D2570 tests in the product information sheets. None of the coolants have any problems passing for solder or copper corrosion, their Dexcool passes with flying colours just like the old school IAT green. The Zerex G40 has an raised corrosion score for the D2570 test but it's still less than half of the min spec cutoff.

Zerex G40 PI Sheet

Zerex Dexcool PI Sheet

Zerex Original Green PI Sheet
 
As others have said Copper is protected fine by Extended life coolants as all coolants contain Azoles in one form or another.
However most extended life coolants contain 2-Eha which is known to be corrosive towards solder...

To protect solder, the best in inhibitor is Molybdate, which is found in G05, and most Fully Formulated diesel coolants.

Conventional Green contains Benzoate, which also protects solder.

So Extended life is fine in older radiators as long as it's a Non 2-Eha formula, but the safest best would be Conventional green or G05
 
Was looking at the spec sheet of the coolant I was using which is by company called Pride and it does not have e-Eha in it.
 
I use Dex-Cool in my GM vehicles that call for it. I use the old original Green in my 87 Grand National, 94 Corvette (last year for Green before going DexCool in 95) and in my 66 Cadillac and older 32 streetrod. I rarely use the "All makes/all Models" coolants.
 
I used Dex Cool in my Gm vehicles that call for it, Mopar in my RAM and Jeep that calls for it and regular old Green in my older vehicles that came with it. I don't use the all makes/all models coolant.
 
What's wrong with all makes all models? I know gm requires dexcool but I don't own any gm vehicles. Manly old Fords and Chryslers. I'm not sure what kind my 2p18 Taurus uses.
 
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
As others have said Copper is protected fine by Extended life coolants as all coolants contain Azoles in one form or another.
However most extended life coolants contain 2-Eha which is known to be corrosive towards solder...

To protect solder, the best in inhibitor is Molybdate, which is found in G05, and most Fully Formulated diesel coolants.

Conventional Green contains Benzoate, which also protects solder.

So Extended life is fine in older radiators as long as it's a Non 2-Eha formula, but the safest best would be Conventional green or G05


Not saying G05 is a bad coolant, but is it 2-eha free? Their PI sheet makes no mention of it whereas the Zerex Asian vehicle does.
 
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
As others have said Copper is protected fine by Extended life coolants as all coolants contain Azoles in one form or another.
However most extended life coolants contain 2-Eha which is known to be corrosive towards solder...

To protect solder, the best in inhibitor is Molybdate, which is found in G05, and most Fully Formulated diesel coolants.

Conventional Green contains Benzoate, which also protects solder.

So Extended life is fine in older radiators as long as it's a Non 2-Eha formula, but the safest best would be Conventional green or G05


Not saying G05 is a bad coolant, but is it 2-eha free? Their PI sheet makes no mention of it whereas the Zerex Asian vehicle does.

G05 is a first gen HOAT using sodium benzoate and also nitrates + silicates. original G48 is basically a silicated dexclone with a dash of some other weirdo benzoate in it.


all coolants protect yellow metals but attack solder to some degree. valvoline's tests makes it clear as day that dex and its derivatives are marginally more aggressive than others but still well within spec. absolutely zero reason to run conventional green in 2020
 
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Originally Posted by Jake_J
Originally Posted by Wheel
I think the tests that should be indicators of coolant corrosion in different metals are ASTM D1384 and D2570.
I did a fair bit of digging looking at coolant a while back, the test results for these tests weren't readily available from too many manufacturers.
My understanding is that ASTM D3306 and D6210 include those tests, but are just a 'meets the spec' indicator. The results of D1384 and D2570 would show underlying differences.



Valvoline publishes all corrosion results for all the Zerex coolants for the ASTM D1384 and D2570 tests in the product information sheets. None of the coolants have any problems passing for solder or copper corrosion, their Dexcool passes with flying colours just like the old school IAT green. The Zerex G40 has an raised corrosion score for the D2570 test but it's still less than half of the min spec cutoff.

Zerex G40 PI Sheet

Zerex Dexcool PI Sheet

Zerex Original Green PI Sheet


Looking at the weight loss in solder between the G40 and original green, the G40 has 3x the weight loss (24 vs 3 Mg). Their dexcool clocks in at 5 Mg.

It is within the D2570 spec, (60 Mg lost), but it 24 looks significant to me, relative to 3.

Is this 2-EHA at work and how significant is this ?
 
G05 is definetly 2-Eha free.
G40, ( VW G12++ / G13 ), it depends on the brand.

Zerex G40 is 2-Eha free, it's strange that it shows such high Solder losses.

Glysantin G40 which is the "daddy" of them all, shows less than -1Mg of solder loss in either Glassware or Simulated Service ASTM tests.

2-Eha is well known to be aggressive towards solder, despite what user "2-EHA" ( 2-eha fan i guess?? ) might say.

Just look up and read the "Engine Coolant testing" series of books which are available on Google Books...

I myself am using G40 coolant in my 1975 Ford Capri with its old school Soldered, copper brass radiator, no problems so far after almost 2 years.
 
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