"We only recheck lug nut torque if you have over 100,000 miles"

[HangFire]

New wheels, race cars, oversized wheels, I can see the possible need for a re-torque.

In nearly 1M miles of motoring, never had to retorque wheels THAT I TORQUED. Every single lug nut came off with more effort than it went on with.

As to the original topic, who can ever explain the BS that comes out of the mouths of some service managers?

 

[dlundblad]

This makes no sense.

I would have gotten tired of the guys face too.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by gathermewool
I've never found any wheel that didn't pass the re-torque check. Each lug nut has always resulted in an instant click when I put a torque wrench back on it. I've actually recently only been spot-checking lug-nuts. If one ever fails the spot-check I'll check there rest.

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Looking to upsell you some more service.


+1

I've never needed anything re-torqued. Usually I come back to yell at them because I couldn't get the lugs off by standing on a breaker bar.


Before we were married, my then-GF had a brake issue that required immediate attention. She lived a couple of hours away, but I luckily had hand-tools in my car while visiting. I did not have a good breaker bar, though... I bounced and bounced my 180# on her OE tire iron and NOTHING! Her tires had very recently been replaced.

I called and asked the counter guy how they verify the lug nuts are torqued correctly?" The guy replied over the phone that they use "torque sticks" on every install. We took a little trip over and just so happened to see some tech HAMMERING away at some lug-nuts with an air impact while installing a customer's wheels. I walked in and up to the counter guy I'd spoken with on the phone and couldn't contain myself, I was so mad. I raised my voice, so that the few people in the waiting area could hear me. I pointed to the tech installing the wheel and asked, "does that look like a torque stick to you!? How do you expect people to get their wheels off in an emergency if you guys are hammering away at the lug nuts like that!?"

I may have blacked-out during my rant, but I do remember coming to after they immediately got us on a lift and loosened the lug nuts for us.

I bought this story until the part about wasting lift time for a re-torque. BS!


Is your BS meter even calibrated, bro!? I don't recall if the bay had a lift or if they put it on the lift if the bay they used did have a lift; it's inconsequential to the story and an odd detail for another member to pick out and call BS on. Besides, I understand that it wasn't my manliness and toughness that resulted in being taken care of immediately, but the service guy wanting to get rid of a yappy, unhappy customer who was obviously causing a ruckus. I could have handled the situation better, I see that now.

Anyway, the incident happened 8+ years ago and I've shared the same story here a few times over the years. It's honestly only one of maybe half a dozen bad experiences I've shared here concerning bad service/work. That's just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the excellent service I've received over the years.

 

[splinter]

lol

Some people. And with a straight face.

 

[JohnG]

Most of these dummies don't know how to operate a torque wrench correctly anyway! Save your breath, find a new place to get tire rotations, and post your results on Google Maps.

Worked for me.

Quote
I've never found any wheel that didn't pass the re-torque check. Each lug nut has always resulted in an instant click when I put a torque wrench back on it. I've actually recently only been spot-checking lug-nuts. If one ever fails the spot-check I'll check there rest.


And this is exactly what I mean. How do you know that they are not tightened TOO MUCH if you just put the torque wrench on it and it clicks?

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by JohnG
Most of these dummies don't know how to operate a torque wrench correctly anyway! Save your breath, find a new place to get tire rotations, and post your results on Google Maps.

Worked for me.

Quote
I've never found any wheel that didn't pass the re-torque check. Each lug nut has always resulted in an instant click when I put a torque wrench back on it. I've actually recently only been spot-checking lug-nuts. If one ever fails the spot-check I'll check there rest.


And this is exactly what I mean. How do you know that they are not tightened TOO MUCH if you just put the torque wrench on it and it clicks?


It looks like you're quoting me. I do my own tire rotations. In my checks, I'm literally checking my own previous torquing of the lug nuts, so...

If my check results in an instant click of the wrench, that means that the nuts have not moved much, if at all. As we all know, if the lug nut does NOT loosen one little bit, the torque-to-remove will ALWAYS be higher than what it was initially tightened to, mainly due to the static coefficient of friction being greater than the dynamic (moving) coefficient of friction. Over time, torque-to-remove can increase further due to corrosion products and contaminants on the threads.

 

[JohnG]

Quote
It looks like you're quoting me. I do my own tire rotations. In my checks, I'm literally checking my own previous torquing of the lug nuts, so...


You didn't say that in your original post, but yes, you are correct. I've watched the tire shop guys beat on lug nuts with an air gun, walk around the car with a torque wrench, and if it clicks, they think it's good!
Meanwhile, on aluminum wheels with a spec of 100 ft/lbs I've found them at 160 -180 ft/lbs upon recheck at home.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by JohnG
Quote
It looks like you're quoting me. I do my own tire rotations. In my checks, I'm literally checking my own previous torquing of the lug nuts, so...


You didn't say that in your original post, but yes, you are correct. I've watched the tire shop guys beat on lug nuts with an air gun, walk around the car with a torque wrench, and if it clicks, they think it's good!
Meanwhile, on aluminum wheels with a spec of 100 ft/lbs I've found them at 160 -180 ft/lbs upon recheck at home.


Sorry for the snarky reply, bud. My previous post definitely didn't mention doing my own rotations.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by gathermewool



Before we were married, my then-GF had a brake issue that required immediate attention. She lived a couple of hours away, but I luckily had hand-tools in my car while visiting. I did not have a good breaker bar, though... I bounced and bounced my 180# on her OE tire iron and NOTHING! Her tires had very recently been replaced.

I called and asked the counter guy how they verify the lug nuts are torqued correctly?" The guy replied over the phone that they use "torque sticks" on every install. We took a little trip over and just so happened to see some tech HAMMERING away at some lug-nuts with an air impact while installing a customer's wheels. I walked in and up to the counter guy I'd spoken with on the phone and couldn't contain myself, I was so mad. I raised my voice, so that the few people in the waiting area could hear me. I pointed to the tech installing the wheel and asked, "does that look like a torque stick to you!? How do you expect people to get their wheels off in an emergency if you guys are hammering away at the lug nuts like that!?"

I may have blacked-out during my rant, but I do remember coming to after they immediately got us on a lift and loosened the lug nuts for us.

Yup, ridiculous. Happened on my sister's car. She had brand new tires installed, and a week later drove back to college (an hour away). She came out to a flat tire, and my dad drove down there to swap out the spare and take the tire back home to get fixed/replaced. He took my breaker bar, and even standing on it (he's 195 lbs) he was just bending the bar. He drove back and had some words with the shop. Ended up needing a pipe on the breaker bar to get the lugs loose.

Shops are so afraid of lug nuts getting loose and having a lawsuit, that they just hammer down with the impact, sometimes even snapping the wheel studs. Don't even get me started on Town Fair Tire and how one of my wheel studs "just broke when they tightened it".

 

[bdcardinal]

I worked at Sears and they were absolutely obsessive over using a torque wrench on lug nuts. The problem was in training they wanted you to use a torque stick and then use the torque wrench, which in and of itself is alright but they never followed that up with you wanted the torque wrench to turn before clicking. I went round and round with the trainer about how he was fundamentally wrong because the torque wrench clicked immediately. He said that was torqued, I said it was inconclusive because it could have a spec of 100ft-lbs and the nut itself was at 200ft-lbs but a wrench set at 100 would click.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I worked at Sears and they were absolutely obsessive over using a torque wrench on lug nuts. The problem was in training they wanted you to use a torque stick and then use the torque wrench, which in and of itself is alright but they never followed that up with you wanted the torque wrench to turn before clicking. I went round and round with the trainer about how he was fundamentally wrong because the torque wrench clicked immediately. He said that was torqued, I said it was inconclusive because it could have a spec of 100ft-lbs and the nut itself was at 200ft-lbs but a wrench set at 100 would click.


Yup, most are trained this way by corporate. They don't care that the wheels are torqued TO spec, only that they are torqued ABOVE the spec to eliminate their liability. Most believe that tighter = better.

 

[dubber09]

There are - "go away and come back in 100,000 miles" kinda shops and there are like one I recently dealt with, the story next.

I pulled winter tires out and put them on before this winter season started, a couple weeks later I noticed a slow leak in driver front tire, checked, no nails, leaky valve.
Took tire off and went to nearest tire shop - they replaced valve core for free and sent me home. I never dealt with them in the past.
Two weeks later the tire started leaking again - back to the same shop expecting to get it fixed and to pay this time - nope, they replaced entire valve and didn't charge me a penny.
Tire is good for last couple months now. This is kinda shops I'll be going back to and talk about and they will do well business wise.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I worked at Sears and they were absolutely obsessive over using a torque wrench on lug nuts. The problem was in training they wanted you to use a torque stick and then use the torque wrench, which in and of itself is alright but they never followed that up with you wanted the torque wrench to turn before clicking. I went round and round with the trainer about how he was fundamentally wrong because the torque wrench clicked immediately. He said that was torqued, I said it was inconclusive because it could have a spec of 100ft-lbs and the nut itself was at 200ft-lbs but a wrench set at 100 would click.


Yup, most are trained this way by corporate. They don't care that the wheels are torqued TO spec, only that they are torqued ABOVE the spec to eliminate their liability. Most believe that tighter = better.


At the time of my story, it didn't even occur to me that when the counter guy mentioned they use torque sticks, that he might have meant AFTER hammering away on the lug nuts with an impact gun. I understand now why they might want to do that, but still!

 

[JohnG]

Reading this thread reminded me that I needed to rotate my tires on the E300. So while driving back from an appointment, I noticed a small tire shop tucked back in the corner next to an AZone. Since the lot was small, I parked at the AZ lot and walked to the shop. Found the owner and pointed out the Mercedes, asking if he'd do a tire rotation. Some places don't want to touch them due to the risk of damamging something. Miguel said "sure, no problem. Then I asked about using the torque wrench tighten the lug (bolts in this case). Once again, no problem.

Well, on the first wheel, it happened. On with the air wrench, then out comes the torque wrench.....click, click . I stopped the mechanic right there and explained exactly what I wanted. After struggling like mad to get some of the bolts loose, he did exactly as I asked, and admitted that they were all too tight from the air wrench.

After we were finished I gave them a $10.00 tip on a $20.00 job. Hopefully, they now understand how to properly use that wrench and end up with some happy customers in the future!

Thanks to BITOG for this thread!
John

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by JohnG
Reading this thread reminded me that I needed to rotate my tires on the E300. So while driving back from an appointment, I noticed a small tire shop tucked back in the corner next to an AZone. Since the lot was small, I parked at the AZ lot and walked to the shop. Found the owner and pointed out the Mercedes, asking if he'd do a tire rotation. Some places don't want to touch them due to the risk of damamging something. Miguel said "sure, no problem. Then I asked about using the torque wrench tighten the lug (bolts in this case). Once again, no problem.

Well, on the first wheel, it happened. On with the air wrench, then out comes the torque wrench.....click, click . I stopped the mechanic right there and explained exactly what I wanted. After struggling like mad to get some of the bolts loose, he did exactly as I asked, and admitted that they were all too tight from the air wrench.

After we were finished I gave them a $10.00 tip on a $20.00 job. Hopefully, they now understand how to properly use that wrench and end up with some happy customers in the future!

Thanks to BITOG for this thread!
John


You took your prized Benz to a little hole in the wall you knew nothing about and expected them to do a professional job?

They might have done what you wanted this time around, but I can almost promise you that they'll go right back to doing it "Their Way" with the next customer.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I worked at Sears and they were absolutely obsessive over using a torque wrench on lug nuts. The problem was in training they wanted you to use a torque stick and then use the torque wrench, which in and of itself is alright but they never followed that up with you wanted the torque wrench to turn before clicking. I went round and round with the trainer about how he was fundamentally wrong because the torque wrench clicked immediately. He said that was torqued, I said it was inconclusive because it could have a spec of 100ft-lbs and the nut itself was at 200ft-lbs but a wrench set at 100 would click.


Yup, most are trained this way by corporate. They don't care that the wheels are torqued TO spec, only that they are torqued ABOVE the spec to eliminate their liability. Most believe that tighter = better.


At the time of my story, it didn't even occur to me that when the counter guy mentioned they use torque sticks, that he might have meant AFTER hammering away on the lug nuts with an impact gun. I understand now why they might want to do that, but still!

I would always use a torque stick rated lower than they wanted us to use so I could get the torque wrench to click after turning.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I worked at Sears and they were absolutely obsessive over using a torque wrench on lug nuts. The problem was in training they wanted you to use a torque stick and then use the torque wrench, which in and of itself is alright but they never followed that up with you wanted the torque wrench to turn before clicking. I went round and round with the trainer about how he was fundamentally wrong because the torque wrench clicked immediately. He said that was torqued, I said it was inconclusive because it could have a spec of 100ft-lbs and the nut itself was at 200ft-lbs but a wrench set at 100 would click.

There's something obsessive and wrong about the Edumacation Industry, that drives them to over-simplify important things to the point of absurdity, and then fall on their sword defending it.

With me, it was my Driver's Ed instructor and tire "friction." He refused to draw a distinction between Static and Dynamic, insisted on backing up the book which contradicted itself, it was all nonsense, and anyone that had paid attention to High School physics knew it (about 1/50th of the class I guess).

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by JohnG
... I've watched the tire shop guys beat on lug nuts with an air gun, walk around the car with a torque wrench, and if it clicks, they think it's good!
... I've found them at 160 -180 ft/lbs upon recheck at home.
A Sears store pulled that idiotic stunt on me. Torque specification (on the Mazda below) was 65-80 ft-lb.

More recently, the local tire shop where I bought tires for my car in October actually got it right---a rarity in my experience.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071


Yup, most are trained this way by corporate. They don't care that the wheels are torqued TO spec, only that they are torqued ABOVE the spec to eliminate their liability. Most believe that tighter = better.



Wheels that fall off are VERY, VERY BAD for the shop. I know of two shops where wheels fell off very shortly after work was done. The shops both ate a big repair bill, and both techs were fired.

Wheels that are really hard to get off are somebody else's problem ...

 

[JohnG]

Quote
You took your prized Benz to a little hole in the wall you knew nothing about and expected them to do a professional job?


So far, these guys were the best I have found around here. I prefer to go to the little places because I can keep an eye on things while they work, and provide guidance if needed.
I could have taken it to Mercedes, which would cost who knows how much, they'd likely find something else it "needed". And you can't get within 50 feet of the work bay.

So, yeah, were not talking rocket surgery here.