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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: PimTac] #5322856 01/14/20 08:34 PM
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CT8 Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Plus in addition to all the above the first batch of A380’s were problematic. Engines, plumbing, wing cracks, etc. Airlines that counted on these aircraft to serve high density routes had to scramble when the aircraft went tech. A couple of other aircraft had to be found to serve all the passengers.

It seems the first batch of any thing new can have problems more often than not, but still my ignorance shows when I am flabbergasted at what the cost of these airliners are costing the industry.


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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5329669 01/22/20 04:18 PM
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Recent news had Boeing attempting to get a line of credit and the 737 max assembly line being halted. Will the 737 max make it back in the air as a passenger jet or will it be regulated to cargo duties? I know it was an extreme failure of marketing, sales and management... will it improve when the new training simulators are put in place?


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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5329766 01/22/20 06:21 PM
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Go straight to the B797 Nap Liner

Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5330186 01/23/20 10:14 AM
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JustN89 Offline
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Looks like settlements have been reached- cash compensation for operators as well as price breaks for parts and other miscellaneous items that must be done by the OEM. My company is still looking at the prospect of buying up cancelled MAX contracts, although that's obviously going to stay in the exploratory phases until certification is passed and the aircraft can operate again.

Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5330214 01/23/20 10:46 AM
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JustN89 Offline
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Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.

Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: JustN89] #5331289 01/24/20 06:05 PM
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fdcg27 Offline
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.


According to the most recent communications, the MAX will not return to service in time for the summer travel season.
There is little doubt that an astute operator could pick up some options to buy these aircraft on the cheap.
Actual firm orders cannot simply be cancelled without serious cost to the buyer with any such costs being defined in the contract the buyer entered into with Boeing, which will also define compensation due buyer for extraordinary events, like this so far eleven months and counting long grounding of delivered aircraft and completed frames in storage. It isn't simply a matter of a buyer contracted to accept delivery saying no thanks nor are the floodgates open to litigation. The purchase contract covers these contingencies, as unlikely as both parties would have consider them when the deal was inked.
This whole chapter is a very dark one for BCA.
It makes the company look totally incompetent, especially after the disaster that was the protracted development of the 787.


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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: fdcg27] #5331451 01/24/20 10:41 PM
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JustN89 Offline
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by JustN89
Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.


According to the most recent communications, the MAX will not return to service in time for the summer travel season.
There is little doubt that an astute operator could pick up some options to buy these aircraft on the cheap.
Actual firm orders cannot simply be cancelled without serious cost to the buyer with any such costs being defined in the contract the buyer entered into with Boeing, which will also define compensation due buyer for extraordinary events, like this so far eleven months and counting long grounding of delivered aircraft and completed frames in storage. It isn't simply a matter of a buyer contracted to accept delivery saying no thanks nor are the floodgates open to litigation. The purchase contract covers these contingencies, as unlikely as both parties would have consider them when the deal was inked.
This whole chapter is a very dark one for BCA.
It makes the company look totally incompetent, especially after the disaster that was the protracted development of the 787.

No, but the orders for the MAX are cancelled and converted to other airframes- Garuda Indonesia recently doing this is an example. Instead of potentially reducing production, Boeing has sold these aircraft to other airlines at a discounted rate- something that a few airlines, not just mine, are exploring. Of course, with the recently failures of the 777X and the delayed introduction of the NMA (if it ever comes- rumor was that Boeing was exploring a new engine option for existing 757s, though with the current MAX issue I don't think Boeing is looking at this option seriously anymore), Boeing is in real trouble. They've got a lot of ground to make up and their only real saving grace right now is that Airbus can't get their production problems fixed.

Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5331490 01/25/20 12:21 AM
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BusyLittleShop Online Content
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I think Boeing needs another Tex Johnson to barrell roll the Max to calm the public's fears...



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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5331557 01/25/20 05:48 AM
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Should be part of every pilot's training...

Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: adams355] #5331956 01/25/20 02:55 PM
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BusyLittleShop Online Content
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Originally Posted by adams355
Should be part of every pilot's training...


I agree... the more a pilot knows the less sheet happens...

Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 01/25/20 02:57 PM.

Larry L
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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5331990 01/25/20 03:44 PM
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The_Eric Offline
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by adams355
Should be part of every pilot's training...


I agree... the more a pilot knows the less sheet happens...

Me too - and it applies to many aspects of machine operation.


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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: JustN89] #5332519 01/26/20 08:38 AM
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fdcg27 Offline
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by JustN89
Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.


According to the most recent communications, the MAX will not return to service in time for the summer travel season.
There is little doubt that an astute operator could pick up some options to buy these aircraft on the cheap.
Actual firm orders cannot simply be cancelled without serious cost to the buyer with any such costs being defined in the contract the buyer entered into with Boeing, which will also define compensation due buyer for extraordinary events, like this so far eleven months and counting long grounding of delivered aircraft and completed frames in storage. It isn't simply a matter of a buyer contracted to accept delivery saying no thanks nor are the floodgates open to litigation. The purchase contract covers these contingencies, as unlikely as both parties would have consider them when the deal was inked.
This whole chapter is a very dark one for BCA.
It makes the company look totally incompetent, especially after the disaster that was the protracted development of the 787.

No, but the orders for the MAX are cancelled and converted to other airframes- Garuda Indonesia recently doing this is an example. Instead of potentially reducing production, Boeing has sold these aircraft to other airlines at a discounted rate- something that a few airlines, not just mine, are exploring. Of course, with the recently failures of the 777X and the delayed introduction of the NMA (if it ever comes- rumor was that Boeing was exploring a new engine option for existing 757s, though with the current MAX issue I don't think Boeing is looking at this option seriously anymore), Boeing is in real trouble. They've got a lot of ground to make up and their only real saving grace right now is that Airbus can't get their production problems fixed.


Okay, so Boeing makes a little lemonade out of the lemons.
Order conversions could only be to the 787, current 777 or 777X and these programs do need orders.


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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: Tdog02] #5332553 01/26/20 09:13 AM
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The Boeing 777x just made its first test flight. A couple of videos here. Note the folding wingtips. The first video is long and shows the taxiing part. The second one shows the takeoff. That is one big airplane.


https://youtu.be/fRpUQHoQ_oE


https://youtu.be/z1PlgNwYeWc


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Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: PimTac] #5333050 01/26/20 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
The Boeing 777x just made its first test flight. A couple of videos here. Note the folding wingtips. The first video is long and shows the taxiing part. The second one shows the takeoff. That is one big airplane.

https://youtu.be/fRpUQHoQ_oE

https://youtu.be/z1PlgNwYeWc


Post flight interview of the pilots showed they were very impressed with the 777X performance and handling. Hopefully, it's trouble free from here on out to the point they start making customer deliveries for use.

Re: 737 max... what now? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5334088 01/27/20 06:54 PM
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fdcg27 Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PimTac
The Boeing 777x just made its first test flight. A couple of videos here. Note the folding wingtips. The first video is long and shows the taxiing part. The second one shows the takeoff. That is one big airplane.

https://youtu.be/fRpUQHoQ_oE

https://youtu.be/z1PlgNwYeWc


Post flight interview of the pilots showed they were very impressed with the 777X performance and handling. Hopefully, it's trouble free from here on out to the point they start making customer deliveries for use.


Well, what else could Boeing factory pilots say?
I hope that Boeing got its mojo back with this program.
The MAX has proven a disastarous quagmire while the 787 may prove to be the highest volume unprofitable transport program in history.
The 777X is supposed to enter service in 2021. I hope that flight testing and opening of the envelop goes well without any gotchas found.
Boeing could use a win and for those who favor larger airliners this is the largest one on current offer.


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