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US Miltary News - F22 #5326735 01/19/20 03:09 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline OP
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Some pretty recent news on the F-22. I saw "Crash" at an airshow a few years ago.


Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5326878 01/19/20 09:10 AM
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$3 billion on the runway in Utah recently
[Linked Image]


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Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5326920 01/19/20 10:00 AM
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I like the fact that row #6 is missing one plane. I guess that pilot slept in?


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5326942 01/19/20 10:21 AM
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4WD Offline
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Like the funny car announcer when the numbers post: That dude is bad - bad - bad !

One of our strengths is a balanced mix of fit for purpose planes and upgrades keep them competitive

The F15, F16, and F/A18 Super Hornets are still serious fighters and Wart Hogs could still kill ground hogs …
Stealth bombers have been around a long time now … and how long has it been since B52 pilots were not younger than the bomber?

Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5326948 01/19/20 10:27 AM
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It was a crime cancelling production at a couple of hundred aircraft. It's another crime posting pictures of F-35s in an F-22 thread! grin2

Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ArrestMeRedZ] #5327014 01/19/20 11:55 AM
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F-22 = 02 TransAM WS6 6MT with a blower
F-35 = 02 Cadillac DTS with CEL and white clouds coming out the exhaust.

Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5330909 01/24/20 08:51 AM
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Tikka Offline
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Hi
Much talk is made of stealth and killing the other guy before he even knows the f22 is there but the weakest link in this in my opinion is the AMRAAM missile. It does not have a good record. 63% success and that is against some less than stellar opposition. Kills beyond visual range are fine with a missile that does not fail 37% of the time.
I suppose at least the F22 can dogfight unlike the F35B we have bought that can only pull limited G.

Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5331474 01/24/20 11:25 PM
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Although the F35 is the best VTOL ever its no match for a dedicated
scrapper like the Raptor... the F22 would indeed dominate in a dog
fight and the only way we may see an F22 caught in a F35s gun
sight is if it's runway is bomb crater...

F22 King
F35 Jack

Like a Jack to a King the F22 will kill anything....

[Linked Image]


Larry L
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Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5331601 01/25/20 07:31 AM
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Tikka Offline
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I absolutely agree with you. I just think the F22 needs a better beyond visual range missile to make full use of stealth.
RAF are using the new MBDA Meteor Missile but as of yet it is not combat tested.

Last edited by Tikka; 01/25/20 07:32 AM.
Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5331626 01/25/20 08:02 AM
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I wouldn't write the F35 off in a fight with the F-22 just yet. Until fully upgraded, (and maybe not even then) it has nowhere near the situational awareness of the F-35, and the F-35's stealth is a newer generation. The F-35 will know where even F-22's are before they know where he is, in most situations. The bad press of the notorious F-35 vs F-16 dogfight was based on a total misunderstanding of the conditions. The F-35 was severely power and aero restricted in that test, being a development aircraft that had was electronically limited to lower G capability. Today's "unleashed" F-35 would be a match for the F-16, and if the gloves were completely off, with all advantages available, the F-16 would have died not knowing what hit it or from where. There was an Air Force pilot with over 4k hours in the F-16 that transitioned to the F-35. He said he'd take the F-35 in ANY scenario over the F-16 if he were to go into combat today. In fact, he said he'd take it over anything else flying, including the F-22, because of the situational awareness. He who sees first shoots first. It is that simple. He said the F-35 sees everybody first, by a wide margin.

The good news is that the F-22 and F-35 fight on the same team and compliment each other. That's bad news for any potential foes. It is also bad news for Russia that we have hundreds of F-35s now on the flightline and an entire wing combat operational (just the Air Force), in addition to Marine F-35's that have been fully deployed on assault carriers, when they don't even have a single SU57 operational yet.

I do agree that it was a huge mistake to end F-22 production. It would have only taken $600 million a year to keep the line going, producing 6 aircraft per year. That's an entire squadron every 4. Dumb move by Gates and Obama. They have all the tooling in storage and could theoretically restart production, but the cost is just prohibitive, especially for a design that old.

Last edited by IndyFan; 01/25/20 08:05 AM.

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Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: IndyFan] #5333663 01/27/20 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by IndyFan


I do agree that it was a huge mistake to end F-22 production. It would have only taken $600 million a year to keep the line going, producing 6 aircraft per year. That's an entire squadron every 4. Dumb move by Gates and Obama. They have all the tooling in storage and could theoretically restart production, but the cost is just prohibitive, especially for a design that old.


$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?

I have a cousin who's now retired (AF Col.) who worked on/led various teams which were tasked upgrading engines/avionics of various aircraft within the fleet. About 15 yrs ago we were talking about the F22 as they were being assembled/flight tested near a house I was renting at the time. At the time he lamented that one of the biggest problems with the F22 was that due to the various delays and long development time many of the electronic components were no longer being manufactured in the US by the time the first aircraft were rolling off the line. He joked that at the time Lockeed Martin and the AF were in the middle of a spat over who would pay for an F22 whose airframe was bent during a flight by a LM test pilot.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 01/27/20 11:57 AM.

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Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: IndyFan] #5334024 01/27/20 05:59 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by IndyFan


I do agree that it was a huge mistake to end F-22 production. It would have only taken $600 million a year to keep the line going, producing 6 aircraft per year. That's an entire squadron every 4. Dumb move by Gates and Obama. They have all the tooling in storage and could theoretically restart production, but the cost is just prohibitive, especially for a design that old.


What is higher chance: fighting China next year or some sheepherder in the middle of desert next year?

Last edited by edyvw; 01/27/20 05:59 PM.

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Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5334339 01/28/20 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?


The F-35 program is spending way more money than the F-22 program ever did.

Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: ZeeOSix] #5334459 01/28/20 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?


The F-35 program is spending way more money than the F-22 program ever did.


Perhaps but the F22 has but one role for only one branch whereas the F35 is designed to do much more by serving at least two branches. In addition the F35 would've been cheaper if the USMC didn't have their stupid V/STOL requirement.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 01/28/20 08:02 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

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Re: US Miltary News - F22 [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5334898 01/28/20 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?

The F-35 program is spending way more money than the F-22 program ever did.

Perhaps but the F22 has but one role for only one branch whereas the F35 is designed to do much more by serving at least two branches. In addition the F35 would've been cheaper if the USMC didn't have their stupid V/STOL requirement.


The F22 would have been cheaper per unit too if they didn't cancel the program right when it was at the point where production was pretty much optimized. And keep in mind that every fighter aircraft program has constant upgrades and maintenance costs ... so the F-35 program wouldn't be any better in that respect as time went on. Also, the whole development program of the F-22 (first 5th Gen super stealth fighter) served them well to use lots of the same technology and lessons learned when designing the F-35, so that could have helped make the per unit cost of F-35s lower.

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