5w30 Throw Off VVT [ 5w20 Vehicle ] ?

[SR5]

Originally Posted by tig1

Many parts of the world do not carry 20 wt oils or they are limited in that wt category. Perhaps they will in the future.


I can only speak for my part of the world, but here every auto store carries 20 grade oil, as well as 30, 40 and 50 grade. I think the big difference is that our owners manuals give us a choice of grades to use based on the local climate. As I said earlier in this thread Toyota allows 0W16, 0W20, 5W30, 10W30 and 15W40 in their modern VVT-I engines (based on suitable climate for starting).

Originally Posted by tig1
20 wt oils have nothing to do with CAFE. I was using 20 wt oils in the late 60s and 70's. I have used M1 20 wt oils for the last 505K in my last 3 Ford Duratech engines with great results and no oil consumption to speak of.


Yes 20 grade oils were around pre-CAFE, but I believe what people are saying is that ONLY listing 20 grade in the owners manual is a CAFE requirement. Back in the 60's and 70's other oil grade would have been listed in your Ford owners manual usually next to some sort local climate temperature suitability.

Yes you can run a synthetic 0W20 year round now, but you can also run a synthetic 0W40 year round too.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by cb4017
I haven't tried it yet in my 2019 Jeep Wrangler but I wouldn't think it would hurt anything. In my 08 Wrangler I used to run M1 0w-40 with no issues. I'm thinking of 5w-30 in my 2019 in the summer as I tow and off-road. Oil temps pushing 240 are typical when I do.

I noted my owner's manual states "0w-20 is RECOMMENDED". It does not say it is required.

Same as mine. Says 5w20 on the oil cap but in the manual it says 5w30 or 10w30 can be used if towing or in high ambient temps. Interestingly, the same engine rebadged as the Kia Carnival is spec'd for 5w30 to Xw40 in Europe and Asia. As far as i can tell 5w20 was only spec'd for N. American models badged as the Kia Sedona. K mainly use 5w30/10w30 but i have used 5w40 in the past and would stick to a Xw40 if i were towing consistently or in much warmer climes than the PacNW. And fwiw, the times i have run a 5w40, i never noticed any meaningful change in mpg's.

 

[tiger862]

The only deal is warranty. Sure you can run what you want but is it a risk worth taking? Let's say you have a major engine failure from LSPI and they ask for receipts then they find out you used an oil that is not designed for it. They can decline warranty and you are left with getting an attorney so the question is will you win or lose? I'd rather not take that chance.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by tiger862
The only deal is warranty. Sure you can run what you want but is it a risk worth taking? Let's say you have a major engine failure from LSPI and they ask for receipts then they find out you used an oil that is not designed for it. They can decline warranty and you are left with getting an attorney so the question is will you win or lose? I'd rather not take that chance.


Why I agree with your concern, the engine failure issue should be more to do with the quality of the oil eg API SN-Plus is required to protect from LSPI, rather than the grade of the oil.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I'd think you're more likely to have problems with varnish and sludge clogging an oil control valve/solenoid in a VVT system than you are with a reasonable change in viscosity. But having said that, keeping to whatever viscosity(s) that are recommended in your owners manual, while under warranty, is always recommended.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by tig1

Many parts of the world do not carry 20 wt oils or they are limited in that wt category. Perhaps they will in the future.


I can only speak for my part of the world, but here every auto store carries 20 grade oil, as well as 30, 40 and 50 grade. I think the big difference is that our owners manuals give us a choice of grades to use based on the local climate. As I said earlier in this thread Toyota allows 0W16, 0W20, 5W30, 10W30 and 15W40 in their modern VVT-I engines (based on suitable climate for starting).

Originally Posted by tig1
20 wt oils have nothing to do with CAFE. I was using 20 wt oils in the late 60s and 70's. I have used M1 20 wt oils for the last 505K in my last 3 Ford Duratech engines with great results and no oil consumption to speak of.


Yes 20 grade oils were around pre-CAFE, but I believe what people are saying is that ONLY listing 20 grade in the owners manual is a CAFE requirement. Back in the 60's and 70's other oil grade would have been listed in your Ford owners manual usually next to some sort local climate temperature suitability.

Yes you can run a synthetic 0W20 year round now, but you can also run a synthetic 0W40 year round too.

And you can use 15-50, but why would you want to.

 

[classic70]

My BIL has used 10w30 in his 5.0 f150 for over 100k and has no issues and still gets same mpg

 

[mpack88]

I felt the same as you do in my 2018 Ford Taurus. When it turned 5000 miles I changed it using superteq 5w30 full syn. Drive it about 2500 miles, had a oil leak warranted and changed it with 0w20 RGT cause I figured silicon from sealant might be high. I was convinced from bitog to use 20grade and I'm glad I did. The car ran fine on 5w30 but on 0w20 it seems smoother when taking off and less noisey. Milage didn't change much. Maybe I'll switch to a 30grade when it's consumers oil which it's not on the 20grae. I plan on doing a UOA at around 15000.

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by PimTac
How would the winter rating send cars to the junkyard earlier?


Was trying to write 0W20 when I ran out of ink. lol

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by tig1

Many parts of the world do not carry 20 wt oils or they are limited in that wt category. Perhaps they will in the future.


I can only speak for my part of the world, but here every auto store carries 20 grade oil, as well as 30, 40 and 50 grade. I think the big difference is that our owners manuals give us a choice of grades to use based on the local climate. As I said earlier in this thread Toyota allows 0W16, 0W20, 5W30, 10W30 and 15W40 in their modern VVT-I engines (based on suitable climate for starting).

Originally Posted by tig1
20 wt oils have nothing to do with CAFE. I was using 20 wt oils in the late 60s and 70's. I have used M1 20 wt oils for the last 505K in my last 3 Ford Duratech engines with great results and no oil consumption to speak of.


Yes 20 grade oils were around pre-CAFE, but I believe what people are saying is that ONLY listing 20 grade in the owners manual is a CAFE requirement. Back in the 60's and 70's other oil grade would have been listed in your Ford owners manual usually next to some sort local climate temperature suitability.

Yes you can run a synthetic 0W20 year round now, but you can also run a synthetic 0W40 year round too.

And you can use 15-50, but why would you want to.


Yes you could, but you wouldn't want to under normal conditions, too thick unless you are in an endurance race or something like that. I try and avoid the extreme grades at each end of the viscosity spectrum.

Like Bud-dha said, follow the middle path.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by tig1

Many parts of the world do not carry 20 wt oils or they are limited in that wt category. Perhaps they will in the future.


I can only speak for my part of the world, but here every auto store carries 20 grade oil, as well as 30, 40 and 50 grade. I think the big difference is that our owners manuals give us a choice of grades to use based on the local climate. As I said earlier in this thread Toyota allows 0W16, 0W20, 5W30, 10W30 and 15W40 in their modern VVT-I engines (based on suitable climate for starting).

Originally Posted by tig1
20 wt oils have nothing to do with CAFE. I was using 20 wt oils in the late 60s and 70's. I have used M1 20 wt oils for the last 505K in my last 3 Ford Duratech engines with great results and no oil consumption to speak of.


Yes 20 grade oils were around pre-CAFE, but I believe what people are saying is that ONLY listing 20 grade in the owners manual is a CAFE requirement. Back in the 60's and 70's other oil grade would have been listed in your Ford owners manual usually next to some sort local climate temperature suitability.

Yes you can run a synthetic 0W20 year round now, but you can also run a synthetic 0W40 year round too.

Good points. IIRC Shannow has discussed on a few occasions the 20 grade oils pre-CAFE where a lot different than the 20 grade oils today. IIRC, a bit "thicker" than today's offerings, and certainly not a 0W20. If someone remembers his exact verbiage let me know. I like the fact when an owner's manual gives you a choice of which viscosity to use based on climate and how the vehicle is going to be used. One size doesn't always fit every possible way a vehicle is going to be used.

 

[ka9mnx]

The original Mobil1 was 5w-20 but claimed to protect better than a 10w-40. It was basically a 20 grade oil that pumped like a 5w when cold. It had a much higher HTHS than xw-20's of today (HTHS wasn't published back then so I don't know what it was) hence the "protects better than a 10w-40".

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
The original Mobil1 was 5w-20 but claimed to protect better than a 10w-40. It was basically a 20 grade oil that pumped like a 5w when cold. It had a much higher HTHS than xw-20's of today (HTHS wasn't published back then so I don't know what it was) hence the "protects better than a 10w-40".

Spent a lot of $$ to try the Just out Mobil 1 in my short-box, STD cab S-10 pickup ( 2.8 Varajet Carbutered large port heads) back in the early 80's. The engine made tons of noise and ran poor so back to the Castrol or Sunoco or ?? 10w30 later that afternoon.

Did not try that stuff for another decade. Bitten and shy.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
The original Mobil1 was 5w-20 but claimed to protect better than a 10w-40. It was basically a 20 grade oil that pumped like a 5w when cold. It had a much higher HTHS than xw-20's of today (HTHS wasn't published back then so I don't know what it was) hence the "protects better than a 10w-40".


Demarpaint, Ka9mnx, if I recall correctly, Shannow said the M1 5W20 had the HTHS of what would today be a 30 grade oil.

Also some 10W40 grades back then had very low HTHS and were just thin oils all jacked up on polymer VII, so they didn't protect as well as they were supposed to and they heavily contaminated the engines they were used in.

That is when they began to realise that HTHS was the core parameter, not traditional viscosity and so J300 was updated to define viscosity and HTHS for an oil grade.

It's probably more accurate to say that back in the day Tig1 was running a high quality M1 5W30 that was miss-labeled as M1 5W20, which was far superior to the low quality 10W40's which were not 40 grades (lower HTHS) and were likely to heavily sludge your engine.

To be honest, good work Tig1, back then I would have been one of those fools running trash 10W40. But he was running a 30 grade M1 by today's definition.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I have run 0w20,10w30,5w30 and 0w40 engine oils in my Tacoma and 4 runners. All have dual vvti one also had to do extreme intake valve adjustments to go between Otto and Atkinson cycles. Not an issue at all. Nada no worries.

Not one bit of difference in engine power performance or mileage all things considered.

The vehicles recomend 0w20 in North America but allow thicker grades right in the owners manual. Same engines get 0w20 to 15w40 in other regions. So it's not an engineering issue, it's a compliance issue.. like your mattress tag.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
The original Mobil1 was 5w-20 but claimed to protect better than a 10w-40. It was basically a 20 grade oil that pumped like a 5w when cold. It had a much higher HTHS than xw-20's of today (HTHS wasn't published back then so I don't know what it was) hence the "protects better than a 10w-40".


Demarpaint, Ka9mnx, if I recall correctly, Shannow said the M1 5W20 had the HTHS of what would today be a 30 grade oil.

Also some 10W40 grades back then had very low HTHS and were just thin oils all jacked up on polymer VII, so they didn't protect as well as they were supposed to and they heavily contaminated the engines they were used in.

That is when they began to realise that HTHS was the core parameter, not traditional viscosity and so J300 was updated to define viscosity and HTHS for an oil grade.

It's probably more accurate to say that back in the day Tig1 was running a high quality M1 5W30 that was miss-labeled as M1 5W20, which was far superior to the low quality 10W40's which were not 40 grades (lower HTHS) and were likely to heavily sludge your engine.

To be honest, good work Tig1, back then I would have been one of those fools running trash 10W40. But he was running a 30 grade M1 by today's definition.

Thanks, that was my point. Mobil 1 5W20 back in the day was not a 20 grade oil by today's standards.

Either way a 5W30 oil, by today's standards is not going to "Throw Off VVT." If it does the engine has mechanical issues, not related 5W30 oil.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
The original Mobil1 was 5w-20 but claimed to protect better than a 10w-40. It was basically a 20 grade oil that pumped like a 5w when cold. It had a much higher HTHS than xw-20's of today (HTHS wasn't published back then so I don't know what it was) hence the "protects better than a 10w-40".


Demarpaint, Ka9mnx, if I recall correctly, Shannow said the M1 5W20 had the HTHS of what would today be a 30 grade oil.

Also some 10W40 grades back then had very low HTHS and were just thin oils all jacked up on polymer VII, so they didn't protect as well as they were supposed to and they heavily contaminated the engines they were used in.

That is when they began to realise that HTHS was the core parameter, not traditional viscosity and so J300 was updated to define viscosity and HTHS for an oil grade.

It's probably more accurate to say that back in the day Tig1 was running a high quality M1 5W30 that was miss-labeled as M1 5W20, which was far superior to the low quality 10W40's which were not 40 grades (lower HTHS) and were likely to heavily sludge your engine.

To be honest, good work Tig1, back then I would have been one of those fools running trash 10W40. But he was running a 30 grade M1 by today's definition.

M1 5-20 was a 5-20 in the 70's. What would be the reason for a deception?

 

[Fallguy]

Originally Posted by Rand
whats the weather like in NONYA?


Sometimes it Hot here Sometimes its Cold ! Other times its wet but many times Dry.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
The original Mobil1 was 5w-20 but claimed to protect better than a 10w-40. It was basically a 20 grade oil that pumped like a 5w when cold. It had a much higher HTHS than xw-20's of today (HTHS wasn't published back then so I don't know what it was) hence the "protects better than a 10w-40".


Demarpaint, Ka9mnx, if I recall correctly, Shannow said the M1 5W20 had the HTHS of what would today be a 30 grade oil.

Also some 10W40 grades back then had very low HTHS and were just thin oils all jacked up on polymer VII, so they didn't protect as well as they were supposed to and they heavily contaminated the engines they were used in.

That is when they began to realise that HTHS was the core parameter, not traditional viscosity and so J300 was updated to define viscosity and HTHS for an oil grade.

It's probably more accurate to say that back in the day Tig1 was running a high quality M1 5W30 that was miss-labeled as M1 5W20, which was far superior to the low quality 10W40's which were not 40 grades (lower HTHS) and were likely to heavily sludge your engine.

To be honest, good work Tig1, back then I would have been one of those fools running trash 10W40. But he was running a 30 grade M1 by today's definition.

M1 5-20 was a 5-20 in the 70's. What would be the reason for a deception?


What I said above, HTHS was for a 30 grade when it was called M1 5W20 back then. Back then HTHS was not included in J300, now it is and the same oil could not be called a 20 grade. Not a deception, just weakly defined standards.

But you know all this as Shannow has told you this many times before.

BTW that "505K in my last 3 Ford Duratech engine" was a cumulative total I assume. That's only ~ 170k miles per engine, fine enough, but nothing special.

 

[ChrisD46]

*If using the appropriate oil weight stated in your owners manual you will be safe ... Hyundai uses VVT and lists 5W20 , 5W30 and 10W30 as being recommended for usage .