Recent Topics
Those with 5.3's weigh in
by Speak2Mountain - 02/23/20 04:26 PM
wix 2019 sienna oil filter cartridge fitment
by s2krunner - 02/23/20 02:19 PM
Urban Carry G3
by Gebo - 02/23/20 02:16 PM
Denso Iridium TT's are great
by jayjr1105 - 02/23/20 01:46 PM
Girl Scout question
by ffhdriver - 02/23/20 01:36 PM
MTD Snowblower issues
by 97prizm - 02/23/20 01:19 PM
OBD scanner
by NH73 - 02/23/20 10:18 AM
Oil additive and effects on oil analysis results
by MoneyJohn - 02/23/20 09:48 AM
More 6.7 PSD engine repairs
by mattd - 02/23/20 09:10 AM
How to get sediment out of heater oil tank?
by BAJA_05 - 02/23/20 08:37 AM
Oil Prices in Europe
by BBDartCA - 02/23/20 08:08 AM
Fury -Wilder 3?
by pbm - 02/23/20 06:41 AM
toro super recycler
by passgas55 - 02/23/20 06:05 AM
Chain style for ag tires
by puma4440 - 02/23/20 04:25 AM
2014 GMC Terrain 2.4L AWD
by Char Baby - 02/23/20 02:06 AM
Newest Members
Lucase483, Chaucha, UofA, Jeffrey78, Markovchain
70788 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
101 registered members (928, 53' Stude, 2010Civic, 46Harry, 762fermeandyou, alanwayne1908, 8 invisible), 2,714 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics301,835
Posts5,203,651
Members70,788
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? #5326283 01/18/20 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
Ok after my panicked sludge cleaning thread (thanks for all the great guidance to everyone) here's where I am and want recommendations on how to continue to finish my engine clean up.

Currently running 1QT MMO in 6 QT oil full syn change. (1:5) I am in 250 miles now. How long should I go (500? 1000? total miles?) Filter looks dark amber but not black at this time.

As a reminder I am trying to do a gentle but thorough cleaning after finding mud like sludge and an oil light (which went out when the sensor was changed- thinkgin it got plugged with sludge). Trying not to do a flush as it seems the engine is not that bad based on hwo quickly it cleaned up so far.

I've read through plenty of threads on how to do a cleanse to clean up an engine and I want one last process to finalize before I go to standard OCI with a high quality synthetic.

I have settled on the Diesel OCI and want recommendations:

What grade to use? Its cold here 15-20 degrees starting in the morning. Car calls for 0W-30. Diesel is not available at that visc. Use single grade?

Use Conventional or Synthetic ? Any special approval (SN1 AP CEA ?? required?)

I've used Rotella in my Turbo Saabs before, seemed fine, so it's a known thing to me but Delvac is also recommended.

If Rotella which to use (T1, T5. T6, TX?)

How many miles on "short changes" are recommended? I can pull the filter at any mileage interval. it's a cartridge type and easy to get to so it's easy to pull.

How many changes before I swap to Mobil 1 ESP ( my go to)

Thanks again for any opinions


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326297 01/18/20 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,497
E
ET16 Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,497
Is it a Saab?

Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326302 01/18/20 12:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,196
B
Boomer Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,196
Use VW diesel spec 5W-30. Castrol makes it and most VW dealers have it at a very fair price.


2019 VW Passat 2.0 liter gasoline DI engine, DI, 2,700 miles, Castrol Professional VW 508 0W-20
2017 VW Golf All Track 1.8 liter gas engine DI, 25,500 miles Castrol Professional VW 505 5W-40
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326326 01/18/20 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
Yes, sorry it is a 2006 9-3 Aero with the 2.8 V6 turbo VVT engine (High Feature GM engine)

Thanks for the suggestions


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326429 01/18/20 03:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,248
J
JC1 Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,248
Originally Posted by jssaab
Currently running 1QT MMO in 6 QT oil full syn change. (1:5) I am in 250 miles now. How long should I go (500? 1000? total miles?) Filter looks dark amber but not black at this time.


How many oil changes did you do before the current OC? Why don't you remove the current oil filter at1000 miles and cut it open to see what's in the filter.

I think I would leave this in until end of March until the weather warms up. Then if you want to go to a HDEO oil change, then go for it.


2015 Grand Caravan SXT Plus 0w-20 Pennzoil Ultra/Fram Ultra Filter
1997 Honda Civic CX 5w-30 PPPP/Fram Ultra Filter
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: JC1] #5326449 01/18/20 04:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
I like the idea to wait till it's warmer.

I am on the 3rd change (all full syn ESP) Did one change after the sludge for 300 Miles, Did another for 500. Now on this one for 500 so far (100mi 2 OZ MMO, 100 more +6 more oz MMO, 100 + 8 more oz MMO and 200 miles with full QT MMO.)

I can wait for 250-500 more or tilll 3000, not sure that's a good idea to keep 1qt MMO in there for the remaining time ( didn't want to go more than 3000 for sure.


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326519 01/18/20 06:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,873
L
Linctex Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,873
Originally Posted by jssaab

What grade to use? Its cold here 15-20 degrees starting in the morning. Car calls for 0W-30. Diesel is not available at that visc. Use single grade?


No Big Deal... we often ran nothing less than 10W-30 in most of our family vehicles back in the 80's & 90's, and it was a LOT LOT LOT colder in North Dakota than where you are!

I would have ZERO fear of a 10W-30 in my sump at 15*F-20*F


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: Linctex] #5326527 01/18/20 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
The car as VVT and I have heard that higher viscosity and cold temps and mess with the timing due to the super fine screens in the VVT soleniods


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326790 01/19/20 07:03 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
Originally Posted by jssaab
I am on the 3rd change (all full syn ESP) Did one change after the sludge for 300 Miles, Did another for 500. Now on this one for 500 so far (100mi 2 OZ MMO, 100 more +6 more oz MMO, 100 + 8 more oz MMO and 200 miles with full QT MMO.)

I can wait for 250-500 more or tilll 3000, not sure that's a good idea to keep 1qt MMO in there for the remaining time ( didn't want to go more than 3000 for sure.

I've always drained it between 500 and 1000 miles but the mfgs website says you can leave it in for a full oci when used as directed. Just keep checking your cartridge filter for build up. You're in luck in that regards, if you had a bottom mount you don't have that luxury.

Fwiw going to a Xw40 when it spec's a Xw30 isn't going to grenade your VVT. But in any event you should have a look at the following full synthetic mixed fleet HDEO's...or you could consider Valvoline Premium Blue 10w30 or 5w40. This is not to be confused with the insanely expensive VPB "Restore". These are Valvoline's more affordable HDEO's. All of these are great HDEO options IMO.

Chevron Delo XSP 5w30

Chevron Delo 400 SP 0w30

VPB 5w40 HDEO

VPB 10w30 HDEO

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 01/19/20 07:08 AM.
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5326927 01/19/20 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
thank you @mad_hatter.. I will look into those oils.

The MMO website sucks really badly. It say you can add a QT at a change AND you should add a QT then change in 300 miles.

Also, could find NO video of running a Qt of MMO for an entire change and what the oil or filter looked like after or oil OR showed any USE for a cleanup after finding sludge....

So far 250 miles in on 1 QT oil on the dipstick looks only darker, not black. Filter looks clear...

I'll check again at 250 more


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5327008 01/19/20 11:47 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
Originally Posted by jssaab
thank you @mad_hatter.. I will look into those oils.

The MMO website sucks really badly. It say you can add a QT at a change AND you should add a QT then change in 300 miles. - true, replace up to (no more than) 25% of capacity at the beginning and/or at least 300 miles before the oil change. MMO is a "light" cleaner; it contains majority napthenic oil (up to 60% IIRC), Stoddard solvent (something like 30%) and the rest is TCP and both para/ortho dichlorobenzene which dissolve carbon. MMO needs a little bit of time to do it's trick.

Also, could find NO video of running a Qt of MMO for an entire change and what the oil or filter looked like after or oil OR showed any USE for a cleanup after finding sludge.... - not sure what you need a video of/for, i assure you it's working... albeit slowly. It is not a harsh/quick acting metal stripper like a Berryman's Chem-Dip, nor do you want it to be as you risk doing damage to oil seals if it were.

So far 250 miles in on 1 QT oil on the dipstick looks only darker, not black. Filter looks clear... - that's not necessarily bad. You don't want huge chunks of sludge breaking away plugging up the filter but it's good that it's there just in case. Ideally MMO would dissolve it into a solution so that the oils chemistry can hold it in suspension until you drain it out. Some of course will get entrapped by the filter as it passes. For your own edification, find something that is gunked up and soak it in a jar of MMO... you'll see how it slowly dissolves. For example, I've done this before using a PCV valve.

I'll check again at 250 more


Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 01/19/20 11:51 AM.
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5327918 01/20/20 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
Ok and thanks @mad_hatter That's exactly what I wan to dissolve all the sludge SLOWLY.

If I can keep the MMO in there a full OCI I will wait till 5k miles. That will be 4K on a full QT ( another 1K on slowly increasing concentrations at the start)

I want to dissolve any sludge that may be in the pickup screen as well. Hoping keeping the MMO in there over the full OCI will do the trick and not need another bath in it. I will see what the oil looks like after the 5k total and decide then.

then I probably use the Valvoline Premium Blue 8600 ES Synthetic Blend Heavy Duty SAE 10W-30 Diesel Engine Oil due to availability and price.

I'll use that for one or 2 OCI then go back to my standard.


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5327955 01/20/20 02:47 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
Originally Posted by jssaab

If I can keep the MMO in there a full OCI I will wait till 5k miles. That will be 4K on a full QT ( another 1K on slowly increasing concentrations at the start) - as long as you didn't already have a "thin" oil in there to begin with and you aren't taxing the engine with heavy towing while you have the MMO in there you should be fine. I certainly wouldn't be worried. When used as directed, MMO is going to drop the top# of the oil by one grade..so if you were already thin, it could thin it out even more causing oil pressure issues.. but you would know that by now, so like I said you should be okay. Just don't go doing any heavy towing/hauling while you're using the MMO where a thicker oil film would be more desirable.

I want to dissolve any sludge that may be in the pickup screen as well. Hoping keeping the MMO in there over the full OCI will do the trick and not need another bath in it. I will see what the oil looks like after the 5k total and decide then. - it will def' have an effect on any sludge or varnish there, just depends on how bad it is. Another product that works exceptionally well as a slow cleaner and has been around since forever is Rislone engine treatment. It has esters in it that slowly dissolve varnish and sludge. Rislone is one of the few mechanic in a can products that actually does what it says.

then I probably use the Valvoline Premium Blue 8600 ES Synthetic Blend Heavy Duty SAE 10W-30 Diesel Engine Oil due to availability and price. - good choice; capable of doing extended drain intervals and one i wouldn't mind running in my V6 gasser one day just to see what it's like.

I'll use that for one or 2 OCI then go back to my standard.- sounds like a solid plan. 👍

Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: jssaab] #5327963 01/20/20 02:57 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3,890
Here's another, albeit a little more "extreme", approach to tackling the oil pick up screen. Don't know if ya caught this but Trav (who's got experience on these things) posted this in your other thread. Berrymans Chem-Dip is pretty strong stuff but after careful consideration of what he's proposing, i can't see how anything could be damaged on the internals that you'd normally be concerned with like oil seals, so long as you follow the procedure he outlined. I've seen YT videos of Chem-Dip at work and it's pretty good stuff.

Originally Posted by Trav
Getting the sludge out of the pan and pickup screen is pretty easy. Put the car on a level surface, drain the oil and replace the plug, buy a gallon of this..

https://www.amazon.com/Berryman-Products-996-Chem-Dip-Carburetor/dp/B00DSMEL2A

Fill the gallon into the sump with a funnel down the dipstick tube. Do not turn the engine over or move the car, you don't want it coming into contact with the seals.
Let it sit for a couple of days then drain and refill with a gallon of kerosene and drain it. Fill with the cheapest oil you can find and start the engine, run for 10 min at idle then drain and refill with ESP 5w30 and a bottle of Rislone HM additive with a new filter. Run it for 3K

The rest of the deposits should take care of themselves unless they are really caked on thick, the pan and pickup will be spotless.




Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 01/20/20 03:03 PM.
Re: Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ?? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5328008 01/20/20 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
J
jssaab Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 54
Yeah I caught Trav's advice. Seems a bit severe based on what I think was a faulty pressure sensor (after discovering the sludginess) that may have gotten plugged up from sludge.

Maybe I'll do one OCI with Risolone after this one (and thicker oil??) . I chose MMO because it worked for another sludgy Saab I bought from a little old man with only 70 K miles on an 11 YO car, short trips only and that worked great till I traded it.

Since i am not seeing too dirty of oil (yet) I am inclined to think the screen is ok. If I get any more feels that it is not, I will do trav's method. Just need another car up and my jag has been sitting waiting for a part got a month. Sheesh...

One more thing ( am running 0W-30 with 20% MMO (1qt:5qt) is tht too thin?

I can always do another MMO or Rislone with a bit thicker oil and go from there. I only drive 2 500 mile trips a week (at 78mph) non-stop. and 4days local 5 miles RT, car barely gets warm in either direction. Thoughts?


2013 Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Supercharged, Tuned 460HP Castrol Edge 5w-30 90k
2006 Saab 9-3 Aero 160K tuned 360 HP Mobil1 European 5W-30
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™