Stick with Maxlife or go back to DW-1?

[Sayjac]

So to recap, did 3x d&f with MaxLife (~$17/gal) and all is well, ie.,shifting fine for ~1&1/2 years on what would obviously be majority ML in the sump. Also on vehicle that originally specs/spec'd Z1. Now considering going to DW1 "slowly" at significantly greater cost, for reasons that appear arbitrary. I think I've got that recap right.

Seems you have to decide if you may be/are influenced by 'imo' a recent sensationalized thread title that hawks the chicken little philosophy. Or are you able to make an informed decision based on knowledge of things like greater sheer stability of full synthetic ATF, so lower starting viscosity but maintaining it much longer. Again on a vehicle that originally spec'd Z1, an expensive oem juice, that had pretty bad anecdotal experiences here including but not limited to quickly sheering.

So with those things in mind, you need to do what you think best. Having significantly more anecdotal experience with ML on a couple of Z1 spec'd Hondas but the same results written in the OP, I know what I would do.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Anyone ever find out who makes Honda oem DW1?


Idemitsu makes it for Honda.

Idemitsus own aftermarket product is not identical to their OEM honda offering - that said Ive used and trust it.

Idemitsu make a whole range of ATF's claiming each requires its own friction modifiers to be correct per transmission.

Even though many have used max life to great success I won't use a generic ATF because I dont see how one formula can effectively offer a multitude of friction modifiers

All that said the OP is already " in for a pound" and took the risk - if he had great results why not repeat?

UD

 

[demarpaint]

I would have stuck with the Honda spec'ed fluid from the beginning, especially in an Odyssey's transmission from that era. However since the Maxlife has been working well for over a year now, stick with it.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105
About a year and a half ago, I did three separate drain and fills on my 2005 Odyssey with Valvoline Maxlife ATF, effectively doing a complete flush. In that year and a half the van has been running and shifting just fine. I'd like to start doing 3 quarts again every year or so but unsure if I should stick with Maxlife or slowly get back to DW-1. I know this is a big debate on whether you should stick with honda stock tranny fluid or if aftermarket is just as good maybe even better. Thoughts?

If you lived closer I have some DW-1 that was left over from a car we sold.

 

[RyanY]

This thread has posts from "Honda fluid only" people as well as "universal is fine" people. The former group could obviously offer lots of evidence that OEM fluid works, albeit with a relatively short lifespan of the Honda Z1 or DW1. The latter group offered their anecdotal evidence that universal fluids are fine in Honda transmissions. I can add my anecdote here, given that I have had PPLV in my '12 Ody for the past 65k and it shifts like new. Therefore i don't see any obvious reasons to necessarily go with OEM vs universal, other than product availability or to save about $10 per annual drain/fill with ML.

I'm curious however...has anyone ever experienced Honda transmission failure with ML (or another universal ATF recommended for Honda)? Of course, this assumes the trans had regular maintenance and functioned well before switching to the universal.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
I would have stuck with the Honda spec'ed fluid from the beginning, especially in an Odyssey's transmission from that era. However since the Maxlife has been working well for over a year now, stick with it.


Over on the Ody forum, DW-1 is pretty much reviled. Amsoil, Redline, Maxlife and even Mobil 1 ATF are considered the best fluids for Honda Odysseys because they hold up better in the heat and better overall shifting characteristics. These are real-world users of said fluids in said vehicles.

 

[jayjr1105]

O lot of the honda V6 AT failures were from crap bearings from the beginning. The got better with the 3rd generation (05 and up).

Is there a VOA on the Idemitsu? Yes, I'm aware that Idemitsu makes a ton of Honda fluids but they are always slightly different under the Idemitsu label. I have a picture somewhere of Idemitsu power steering fluid next to Honda and the Idemitsu was much darker. If you search Idemitsu PSF on Amazon you'll see my pic.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105
O lot of the honda V6 AT failures were from crap bearings from the beginning. The got better with the 3rd generation (05 and up).

Is there a VOA on the Idemitsu? Yes, I'm aware that Idemitsu makes a ton of Honda fluids but they are always slightly different under the Idemitsu label. I have a picture somewhere of Idemitsu power steering fluid next to Honda and the Idemitsu was much darker. If you search Idemitsu PSF on Amazon you'll see my pic.


Yes there is a VOA of both ATF's posted and the links are in this thread and or its searchable.

UD

 

[brages]

I used Maxlife in my 2005 Odyssey from 130k miles until it was totaled at 230k. So have many others. It will be fine.

Dw1 isn't terribly expensive if you buy it online, though.

 

[jayjr1105]

Originally Posted by brages
I used Maxlife in my 2005 Odyssey from 130k miles until it was totaled at 230k. So have many others. It will be fine.

Dw1 isn't terribly expensive if you buy it online, though.

Any major work on the way to 230K?

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
But in Honda's case, because they are not a "true" automatic in the generally understood sense of the word, I would say if you notice any issues you should go back to DW-1.


This is incorrect. Honda automatics are much the same as other autos, they just arrange the gears on multiple shafts instead of using planetary gears. The perception that they are "automated manuals" is incorrect. Not to say that this packaging decision doesn't have other effects (smaller diameter clutches than optimal, for example).

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105
Originally Posted by brages
I used Maxlife in my 2005 Odyssey from 130k miles until it was totaled at 230k. So have many others. It will be fine.

Dw1 isn't terribly expensive if you buy it online, though.

Any major work on the way to 230K?


No major work to the (non VCM) engine or transmission. The transmission whined when I bought it and whined when the car was totaled. I think this is caused by a soft or badly machined feature in the transmission case that allows some motion of one of the bearings.

Fwiw, I have a 2010 and I just did a dw1 drain and fill... this forum influenced me.

 

[brages]

I paid $5.84 per quart plus shipping from hondaautomotiveparts.com for the genuine dw1.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by brages
I paid $5.84 per quart plus shipping from hondaautomotiveparts.com for the genuine dw1.


Shipping costs???

 

[wdn]

Originally Posted by Jake_J
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Valvoline makes great fluids. I had not seen this ATF before; I was interested.
According to the back of the bottle and the Product Information sheet, for Acura/Honda it lists ATF-Z1 but not DW-1.
Z1 is the earlier Honda fluid, DW-1 is the current spec.

But I bet it is good stuff.


I don't know what product information sheet you're reading, but the the one on valvoline.com says recommended for both Z1 and DW-1 (except in CVT's) as well as Honda ATF type 3.1 .

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1


The product information for MaxLife that you linked to says it is unapproved, not that is is recommended by Honda. MaxLife has no approvals.

Quote
MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF is not an OEM licensed product. The respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor endorsed MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF in these applications.


MaxLife is "recommended" only in the sense that McDonalds recommends you buy a Big Mac. Valvoline is the only one doing the recommending here. Valvoline recommends you buy its product.

Since the car in question is an older vehicle, a 2005 Odyssey, there is no warranty denial issues. No need for legalize. Use what you like it's your car.

There are other aftermarket, multi-vehicle ATF fluids on the market that actually do meet OEM licensing by Ford and GM, and Japanese OEM approvals like JASO-1A standard accepted by nearly all Japanese car makers (excluding Honda). But MaxLife multi-vehicle is not one of those brands.

 

[cappilot]

I get a kick out of Honda ATF threads. It's too bad there isn't a definitive resolution to the question.

When I bought a used 2001 Odyssey in 2011 (with all of 26,000 miles on the odometer), a lengthy perusal of various forums let me to believe the transmission wouldn't live a particularly long life. The battle between OEM fluid only and aftermarket of some brand was in full swing. My decision was to give MaxLife a try. It took a few hundred miles to notice any operating difference, which was limited to what felt like shifts that are a bit crisper.

An occasional Accura thread also including some type F fluid in the mix. An approximate 50/50 mix of MaxLife and Redline Racing ATF (teir type F). That combination firmed the shifts a little more and has been the transmission's steady diet through now, with the odometer showing 149,900.

Would Honda-branded ATF have served as well? There is of course no way to know. That's unfortunate.

On a mostly unrelated note, MaxLife in a 2006 Kia Sedona van at 100,000 miles eliminated shift flare and took the van to it's sale at 244,000. The van was replaced by a 2018 Kia Optime which began receiving drains and fills of MaxLife beginnig with the first service at 5,000 miles. With 45,000 miles now, the only noticeable change has been an elimination of the somewhat sloppy shifting that existed when the car was new. Maybe any semi-suitable ATF would have produced the same results. All I can relate is that MaxLife has been very satisfactory.

 

[ctechbob]

I can only offer this bit of insight from the well-regarded shop that rebuilt the trans in my wife's now dead 2000 Accord (Thanks to a speeding box truck). He does not fill his rebuilds with Honda DW1. He uses a multi-use fluid and straight up told me, clean fluid is more important than DW1. He builds and ships all over the country and said he's got no concerns with his warranty as long as you change the fluid with something that meets the specs.

So, take that for what its worth. The Honda transmission fluid discussion will probably never end.

 

[samiamz]

I guess it doesn't matter one way or the other. It probably will not make a difference.

You can stick with MaxLife since that is what is in right now.

OR

You can go back to DW-1.

While there will never be "final" proof, there is enough anecdotal evidence on the forum here that either of these two fluids will likely be fine for the Honda transmission for a long time.

However, I am not willing to accept that any clean new fluid that meets spec or is close enough to spec will be fine. My personal experience with my 02 Odyssey tells otherwise. Took it in for a trans service at a local indie shop - which advertises that the use OEM fluids whre called for! Soon after trans started slipping, 500 miles later and 4 more visits to the shop later, they admit they accidentally put in GM fluid in the trans - which they claimed they rectified and drained out and replaced with DW-1 at one of the subsequent visits (unknown to me). Before the service the trans was working fine, it had received regular drain and fill service at the dealership. After the service, I couldn't drive a mile. Long story short - I had to take it back to the dealership - trans was replaced with a rebuilt unit from Honda.

Now 100k miles later and with regular DW-1 D&F, I personally would hesitate to use another fluid. But that is just my personal choice. I probably would be fine with MaxLife, if I used it.

 

[PandaBear]

Usually, if you don't know, you have to make a judgement call because there're people who'll tell you to stick to Honda or use whatever fluid people recommend and have worked well. However in your case since you have done it before and you are doing it often, on a known "weak" Honda transmission (V6 auto), I'd say just drain and fill a lot and not worry about it. Even if you use Honda ATF your transmission can still die all of a sudden, it isn't an Aisin and it isn't known for ultra reliable.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
C'mon, max... do you know how many times in the past 3 years Mola has commented on threads containing the word Maxlife? I do. The list is four pages long. I can't remember the search terms, so I was hoping he'd pop in and satisfy your need for speed.... in finding the thread I referenced LOL. I'll keep looking.


Yes, I remember Mola's analysis suggests the formula of DW1 and Z1 are more suitable for the automatically shifted manual transmission like Honda, and the Idemitsu H+ / Valvoline MaxLife are more for the planetary gear automatic like Aisin / GM design. But, I think most people seem to believe that even the planetary gear auto / Dexron style ATF in high quality and changed often should be OK (as many people drive to upper 200k with no failure) or good enough. I think that's the agreement most have from that analysis and user results.