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Fridge and freezer oil test #5325606 01/17/20 06:59 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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Looking at the spec sheets of the Valvoline MC syn I use, and the Lucas 50wt syn oil, it looked like the oil labeled as a 50wt would actually be less viscous. From my basic test it seems to be the case. The Lucas 50wt synthetic MC oil flows faster out of the freezer than the Valvoline labeled as a 20w50. Also using the online calculator someone suggested also showed that to be the case. So... for whatever reason, Lucas labels something a 50wt when it could be a 20w50

Last edited by jkhawaii; 01/17/20 07:16 PM.
Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5325709 01/17/20 08:45 PM
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Silk Offline
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You should do an oven test too, heat them up to 100 C, and see what they look like. Can you tell the difference then ?


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite VTwin 20-50
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-30 Castrol Edge
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: Silk] #5325839 01/17/20 10:47 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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Well, there are published data for 100c and 40c.
Valvoline 20w50 syn MC oil
KV100 (cSt) 20.5
KV40 (cSt) 162
Lucas 50wt syn MC oil
100 cSt 18.3
40 cSt 145

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5325844 01/17/20 10:55 PM
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BusyLittleShop Offline
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Then its possible Lucas 50 grade would test faster then the 20W and qualify as a 15W or 10W...

API ranks the first number and the letter W from the slowest to the
fastest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up because
the most wear happens during startup before pressure is establish...

0W

5W

10W

15W

20W

Technically speaking the number and W is not a flow test to simulate
start up because oil don't flow much at minus degrees rather the W is
a API test where a cup of oil is stabilized to minus degrees and then
stirred by a precision motor / magnet and the amount of milli amps it
takes to move it in the oil are recorded and compared to the chart
attached...

Quote Dan Watson who really knows that W measures in say a 10W test...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/E_iN_IJpSIU

"To test how oil will function in cold weather they don't flow the oil
because it would not flow through the orifice instead API takes a cup
and they fill it full of oil and lower it to the temperature required
they stabilize the temp to 0 degrees they set the cup on top of a
magnetic stirrer with a precision motor that turns the magnet. In the
oil is another magnet that magnet suppose to follow the outside magnet
the motor is connected to a precision milli amp meter which measures
amps in milli amps or 1,000 of an amp. the amount of current it takes
to turn the magnet in the cold oil is what is tested they set a range
on amperage if it will turn the magnet and draw 322 milli amps then
that qualifies as a 10w. to test for 5W they go down another 5
degrees and it stills has to achieves that amperage or lower. So what
are they really testing? the ability of the oil to lubricate a moving
part when its very cold will the oil actually allow the part to move
and not channel it can actually move in this cold oil and actually stay
a liquid if it actually does that they want to know how well it does
that the little precision motor will tell you how much energy it takes
to make the magnets turn that is a test of the resistance of moving
parts within the volume of oil. that is the trouble of cold oil can
you pump it? can you move it through gears can we get the oil to
move?"


Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 01/17/20 11:14 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5325848 01/17/20 11:03 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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In my very crude test both were about the same at -10c, perhaps a little less (very little) viscous with the Lucas. I also pored the oil put on a card board and the Lucas did get to the end first, but by a very small margin.

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5325849 01/17/20 11:05 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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I measured out as close as I could. One table spoon each, in a small Rubbermaid container each

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5325852 01/17/20 11:08 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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I really only need to worry about temps down to 35F. I don’t plan on riding at temps lower than that

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5326054 01/18/20 08:18 AM
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toneydoc Offline
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If you never crank the engine below 35F, then use a quality MC oil and it will be fine
You will never need it to flow at freezer temps


1994 Jeep 167k NextGen 10w30
2014 Camry 44k Castrol Magnatec 0w20
2018 Jeep Cherokee 8k Pennzoil Platinum 5w30
2014 HD Ultra 51k Mobil1 15w50
Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: toneydoc] #5326277 01/18/20 12:24 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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Originally Posted by toneydoc
If you never crank the engine below 35F, then use a quality MC oil and it will be fine
You will never need it to flow at freezer temps

Yeah I was just checking. Seemed about the same at 40 deg so I tried 0

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5326528 01/18/20 06:15 PM
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Bonz Offline
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Originally Posted by toneydoc
If you never crank the engine below 35F, then use a quality MC oil and it will be fine
You will never need it to flow at freezer temps


As an example, even if it is a quality MC oil, if his bike doesn't call for a 10w30, he may not want to run it. Just looking for clarity on what you're trying to say. 20w50 or 50w can be used down to 35 degrees Fahrenheit with margin to spare in terms of flow at initial startup.

There's a thread in the motorcycle used oil analysis section with a forum member using VR1 40 weight in his FZ09. Not sure how hot it gets in Oregon, possibly a 40 weight would be worth a look unless you're dealing with an engine that needs the thicker oil because that's what specified.

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5326742 01/19/20 03:59 AM
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Shannow Offline
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Then its possible Lucas 50 grade would test faster then the 20W and qualify as a 15W or 10W...


It's possible that it's a 0W too...but not likely.

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
API ranks the first number and the letter W from the slowest to the
fastest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up because
the most wear happens during startup before pressure is establish...


No, that's incorrect...it occurs during warmup...you've pulled enough stuff apart to know that engines aren't "dry" when you start them.

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Technically speaking the number and W is not a flow test to simulate
start up because oil don't flow much at minus degrees rather the W is
a API test where a cup of oil is stabilized to minus degrees and then
stirred by a precision motor / magnet and the amount of milli amps it
takes to move it in the oil are recorded and compared to the chart
attached...


The tools that are used to test viscosity are called "viscometers"...all the way from your "gravity flow" devices that you talk about to the "rotary" viscometers that you are trying to explain here.

W grades are measured for the MRV, which is the viscosity in a Mini Rotating Vscometer, where they have to achieve a maxmum limit, and not display a shear stres point...which ensures that ot will flow to the pickup.

And they do a CCS, cold cranking simulator, which tests the ability for an engine to turn over.

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Quote Dan Watson who really knows that W measures in say a 10W test...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/E_iN_IJpSIU

"To test how oil will function in cold weather they don't flow the oil
because it would not flow through the orifice instead API takes a cup
and they fill it full of oil and lower it to the temperature required
they stabilize the temp to 0 degrees they set the cup on top of a
magnetic stirrer with a precision motor that turns the magnet. In the
oil is another magnet that magnet suppose to follow the outside magnet
the motor is connected to a precision milli amp meter which measures
amps in milli amps or 1,000 of an amp. the amount of current it takes
to turn the magnet in the cold oil is what is tested they set a range
on amperage if it will turn the magnet and draw 322 milli amps then
that qualifies as a 10w. to test for 5W they go down another 5
degrees and it stills has to achieves that amperage or lower. So what
are they really testing? the ability of the oil to lubricate a moving
part when its very cold will the oil actually allow the part to move
and not channel it can actually move in this cold oil and actually stay
a liquid if it actually does that they want to know how well it does
that the little precision motor will tell you how much energy it takes
to make the magnets turn that is a test of the resistance of moving
parts within the volume of oil. that is the trouble of cold oil can
you pump it? can you move it through gears can we get the oil to
move?"



If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5326743 01/19/20 04:00 AM
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Posts: 43,497
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Shannow Offline
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Freezer tests only tell you how difficult performaing an oil change at that temperature is.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: Shannow] #5327069 01/19/20 12:42 PM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Shannow
Freezer tests only tell you how difficult performaing an oil change at that temperature is.

Not viscosity?

Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: jkhawaii] #5328066 01/20/20 05:04 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by jkhawaii
Well, there are published data for 100c and 40c.

Valvoline 20w50 syn MC oil
KV100 (cSt) 20.5
KV40 (cSt) 162

Lucas 50wt syn MC oil
100 cSt 18.3
40 cSt 145


Yes, the Lucas 50wt is a bit thinner at both temperatures. No need to to "freezer" or "oven" tests when you have KV40 and KV100 data.

I doubt the bike will know the difference since their viscosity vs temperature curves are very close from 0C to 100C.

[Linked Image]


Re: Fridge and freezer oil test [Re: ZeeOSix] #5328453 01/21/20 05:52 AM
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jkhawaii Offline OP
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Yeah, those calculators seem to be accurate. Been looking at the data sheets of oils lately and have been noticing that the ASE viscocity (5w30, 50wt ect) have quite a bit of leeway. 100c is usually close but, at colder temps the window is quite wide. For marketing reasons I guess, one oil is labeled a 50wt even though it could be labeled a 20w50

Last edited by jkhawaii; 01/21/20 05:54 AM.
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